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To.

How did we perceive nursery rhymes when we were children?

It doesn't really matter.

We're not children anymore.

We wanted to create something truly groundbreaking.

Forgotten bits and pieces of centuries old poems.

So we thought, how do we bring these dead stories back to life?

Reanimation.

Mother goose reanimated as a multimedia alternative art experience that includes a fully annotated coffee table art book, which will also be available in a digital format featuring production notes and behind the scenes photos and alternative prose to these rhymes.

And.

The cast includes a very diverse group of award winning film, television, theater and voiceover actors, and a production team of award winning writers, directors, artists, animators, and composers.

The stories are complex and unconventional.

The illustrations are dark and layered with evocative imagery.

The music is lush and emotional, and the faces are unique, beautiful and sometimes grotesque.

Welcome to the world of Mother Goose, reanimated.

John Paces is our guest.

John, thank you so much for being here.

Thank you for being here.

Thank you.

I'm so excited to be in your Inglewood studio.

And we are going to talk about this book, Mother Goose Reanimated.

As we get further into our interview.

But before we start, I want our audience to get to know you because you've been doing this incredible work for over 27 years.

At 22, this will be our 27th year coming up in June.

Yes.

How did you get this phenomenal idea with.

We have our studio audience here as well, with these students that are going to be the next part of Hollywood right here.

Well, okay.

Background wise, please.

You know, I've been an actor and a singer and dancer since I was about 15.

You know, I was a theater kid, so that's always been in my blood.

My mother was a special education teacher, so I was very used to being around a population of individuals with disabilities.

I had a cousin who had a developmental disability, so I was very, very comfortable with the population.

When I moved to Los Angeles in 1980 from New York, I'm originally from the Bay area, San Francisco Bay area, but area, New York, L.A., yeah, and Chicago in between doing theater and music.

But I was I was in, I was in New York, and came out to LA in 1980.

I was in rock band with my younger brother, and, I was looking for day work because as a musician, as you guys know, it's tough to make a living, right?

You gotta have a day job.

Gotta have a day gig.

So, my day job, I found a position working in a large behavior management agency that, worked with about 180 adults with disabilities between, the day program.

Okay, nonpublic school for the younger individuals and, residential, programs.

And, so I started off as a classroom instructor that was working with eight, men all around my same age with autism.

And, I found the social services system at that time for this specific population was.

I didn't feel very creative.

I felt slightly dispassionate.

And so I wanted to.

I wanted to discover something that would really, really turn these guys on.

You know what?

What would make them click?

And so as a musician and as a, as an actor, I would, you know, role play with these guys and, I, we had a piano in our classroom.

We had I bring my guitar with me and I really started to find out that, you know, this is something that I can really sink my teeth into working with this population.

And, it brought out the fun, and it brought out parts of their personality that I don't believe that people had normally seen because, you know, some of the, some of the activities at the time were very basic, like, can you sort silverware or can you, can you identify, different types of coins and, you know, dollar bills, can you make change?

Can and these are life skills.

But, you know, I'm just going, gosh, you know what?

There's got to be something more.

There's got to be something very, very passionate that these guys can really light up when they're when given that opportunity.

So, with that agency started off as a classroom structure, ended up being an associate director.

I was there for 17 years while I was working on my music, while I was working on my acting career.

And that agency closed in 1997, and I found myself at a ripe age of 44 years old, unemployed, with no prospects.

And so I'm going, gosh, what am I going to do?

What am I going to do?

So I decided to kind of meld those worlds together.

I knew a little bit about, the entertainment industry for being involved since I was a young person, and I knew about working with this wonderful population because I'd been doing that for 17 years.

And I said, wouldn't it be great just to crash those two worlds into each other and see what can happen?

So I went to one of the funding sources that we had been working with for many, many years with a proposal for this program and got a grant, a small startup grant of $5,000.

And, so I bought a consumer camera, I bought a little television, I bought a little keyboard, I bought, you know, some music books and chairs and tables and stuff like that.

And we just started working with these guys back in June of 1998.

And my hope at the time was, gosh, maybe we can just get these guys background work once in a while or, you know, start working on having them be comfortable in front of a live audience.

If we were going to be performing, you know, performing live and also be comfortable on camera.

And that's how the whole thing started 27 years ago.

So 27 years ago, it looks like a around the same age.

So in 1998, I can think of one person with a disability that I saw on primetime television.

I mean, one person.

I mean, how do you come up with this idea?

Because you now see, as large as this industry is, we only saw one person.

So how do you come up with this idea and move forward?

I was really hoping that the industry would take a leap with regard to trusting and being comfortable of having actors with disabilities portraying characters with disabilities.

Okay.

And, you know, it was a slam dunk.

Obviously, if there's a script that has, you know, an individual down syndrome and we do work with a, you know, a good number of individuals with Down's syndrome, you got to go that way with them.

But if you're talking about other developmental or intellectual disabilities, that are more invisible disabilities, then that would be something that I felt would be an inroad for us because we had we had people with cerebral palsy, we had people with autism.

We had people with, you know, varying types of developmental and intellectual disabilities.

And why not have a trained actor with that disability, you guys.

Right.

Trained actors with disabilities portraying characters with disabilities, instead of having a non-disabled individual portraying that character.

And it adds to an authenticity.

It adds to, I think just, it elevates the material.

If you have somebody portraying a character with a disability who is actually disabled and they don't have to act that part, you know, you don't have to, you know, put on some kind of a fake voice or, you know, change, change your physicality in any kind of way.

It's just a trained actor working from the point of view of their skill level.

And we also would never in all these years, we would never have anybody go on set that wasn't prepared to be on set.

And we've had people doing we've had people working with Oscar winners, with Emmy winners, with Tony winners, with Grammy winners.

And since we opened the studio in 1998, over the past 27 years, between our original productions that we do and film and television and commercials and music videos and web series and every other type of, you know, work that there is in the industry.

Our guys have been cast and portrayed over 3000 characters over the past 27 years.

So we went from really seeing one person that anyone who would watch this show, Facts of Life.

That's what I was thinking of.

So we went over one person to add in 2999 more in 27 years.

I mean, how do you do that?

A lot of hard work, a lot.

You know, listen, we have the most amazing teaching staff here.

There, professionals from the entertainment industry.

We have, you know, acting teachers, we have dance teachers, we have music teachers.

And these are all people who who are experts and are working in that part of the industry.

And for them to be able to come in and share their passion and share their expertise and have the ability to get these guys professionally trained so that when they are on set, when they're doing a music video, when they're doing a, you know, a guest spot on a television show, if they're doing a feature film, they are prepared and ready to go.

And you know what?

We have never had anything but amazing feedback from directors and producers and, you know, other actors that we have worked with.

And, and part of our goal has been that, you know, we don't baby, these guys, you know, they're adults.

We work with you guys like adults on my right.

Yeah.

Okay.

We work with you guys as we would be working with any other person who was wanting to have a career in the entertainment industry, you know, and to be able to convey to a director or producer or a showrunner, you don't have to.

You don't have to baby these guys.

You don't have to handle them with kid gloves.

They are ready to go and we can get we would work very, very closely with directors and we would say, if you're not getting what you want out of these guys, you know, let us know, because that's what we are here for.

You know, we we we know them very, very intimately.

We know what their skill level is.

We know how deep they can go if you need that, if it's a comedic kind of a scene, we know how to get them into that kind of a mood.

So these guys could really, really work professionally and I mean, we have done we've done hundreds and hundreds, thousands of hours, thousands of hours, thousands of hours on set.

I mean, we've had we've had people that have been, you know, series regular for, for series for five years running Secret Life of the American Teenager was, you know, one of our one of our feathers in our cap.

Wonderful, wonderful show that we had, our actor Luke Zimmerman was on that for five years and, you know, started off as a recurring character and became a series regular after a while.

Michelle Marks played his his girlfriend, Tammy.

And, she was on there for four seasons as a reoccurring character.

And, you know, it's just it's been such a wonderful experience.

And, you know, the future is bright.

You know, the industry is opening up.

It's still a struggle.

It's still a struggle to, you know, to to make sure that this population is represented in a way that it should be, in a way that is a reflection of society itself.

You know, 20% of the population in the United States identifies as having some type of disability.

And for these guys to be able to see someone and say that looks like me, or I can relate to that person because they have the same disability that I have.

It's it's something that I think is, is very important and needed in this, you know, in this industry, not only is it needed, but it's something that our viewers need to know more about, which is why I'm so happy to be here with you.

You talked about the incredible teachers that you have here, which I've been able to experience over there, giving advice.

But also, was it difficult to recruit the students for what you were doing?

Difficult, challenge?

We you know, I think it's funny.

Yeah.

Listen, hey, we're living in LA, you know?

Right.

What do people in LA want to do?

They want to be in the entertainment industry.

Right.

So so it wasn't a challenge at all, is what you're telling me.

But where we do where we do get our individuals from there are we work with, seven, I think seven different regional centers.

All right.

That I and there are 21 regional centers in the state of California.

And they cover, you know, different parts of the state that makes sense.

You know, just like the missions, there are 21 years I know, no affiliation, I don't think, between the missions and the regional centers, but, those regional centers are responsible for coordinating services for individuals with disabilities.

That includes housing.

That includes, you know, job training, that includes day program.

Medical care.

And because I had been working for 17 years with some of these regional, excuse me, regional centers in a previous, facility that I was at, I kind of knew the game at that point.

You know, I knew the game.

And when I went to the regional center, who I eventually got this, the startup funds from, they were very enthusiastic because they had nothing like this.

They had never even heard of anything like this.

You know, they said no one is doing this.

And yeah, let's give you a shot.

And so we would we would start in the in the early, early days, we would go out and do live performances, you know, music performances, acting showcases.

And we'd go to the different regional centers.

We would go to, you know, events that were were being, you know, held throughout the greater Los Angeles area.

We would go to, senior citizen homes.

We would perform any place that we could perform just to get our faces out there and let people know what we did.

We are going to take a break.

Okay.

When we come back, I want to hear your thought process of how you come up with Mother Goose reanimated.

Absolutely.

And then also to you talked about T-Bone.

T-Bone in this T-Bone is in.

Okay.

So we have to bring table back and talk about him as well.

Okay?

Okay.

Awesome.

Come right back to hear more from John.

How did we perceive nursery rhymes when we were children?

It doesn't really matter.

We're not children anymore, right?

It it.

It it.

Welcome to the world of Mother Goose, reanimated.

Welcome back.

John.

That was a fantastic first segment.

And it really shows the beginning of what you wanted to do, what you set out to accomplish.

But all while you're doing this, you're coming up with an idea for Mother Goose.

Reanimated.

Yes.

Ten years.

Ten years in the making.

It was how how do you start this?

Oh my gosh.

Well, you know, we have done so many different types of projects over the years.

You know, our, our, our original projects.

Yes.

We've done web series, we've done intimate, intimate theater productions.

We have done large scale multimedia musicals with over 80 people in the cast, 500 seat, you know, theaters.

We've done web series, we've done music videos, we've done just about everything you could possibly do.

And we were thinking more, what's something we haven't done before?

You know what?

We haven't done any print work.

We haven't done anything in print.

And so we thought, okay, well, what would be a fun way of introducing these guys to print work?

And so we're kicking it around and you know, we're talking with staff and you know the creative team here.

And we said, well, what if we what if we did something where we took, you know, traditional Mother Goose nursery rhymes and then reinterpreted them from a modern lens that really focuses on taking these rhymes in these stories somewhere where an audience or a reader would never expect them to go.

And originally we thought, okay, 12 rhymes.

And I'm saying, yeah, maybe we'll do a calendar, you know, a little, you know, okay.

You know, each month, each month would be a different rhyme.

But when we started getting into this, it just started getting deeper and deeper and deeper in the possibilities and our expectations of what these guys could do.

And then involving and getting the support and the participation of celebrities that had become friends of the studio through our Meet the Biz program, or people that we had worked with in, you know, film or television projects.

And as we started approaching these celebrity friends, each one of them would say, I got, I would love to do this.

I would love to do this.

So it it really just blossomed into this very, very big project that not only has the book itself, but there is there is short films that go with this.

There is original music that goes with this, and it has become something that we are just extremely proud of and something that we see in longevity too, as well, with other ideas that we have for the project moving forward.

When I heard about the book, we think these are nursery rhymes, but a lot of these nursery rhymes are very dark.

And so how do you put your spin on it?

And everybody get involved with that and say, okay, yes, we're going to change Humpty Dumpty.

And how do you do that?

Right.

You know what a lot of it's just it's brainstorming.

Right, guys?

We would be brainstorming with staff and just, you know, kicking around ideas, you know, one of my favorite examples of this is when we were doing Hey Diddle Diddle, the Cat and the fiddle.

The cow jumped over the moon.

The little dog laughed to see such sport.

And the dish ran away with the spoon.

Thank you.

All right.

And at the time and again, you know, we're going ten years back when we started the show and I can't remember exactly when in that timeline we started doing, focusing on that rhyme.

But we had an individual here, a client, a participant.

Her name was Raven.

And we were we were kicking around ideas for this.

And originally we were thinking, okay, you know.

Hey there, the cat in the fiddle.

Hey, that sounds kind of hip.

And, you know, it could be fun.

And we were thinking about doing it as a, 1960s Rat Pack, arrow, Hollywood Hills.

And I said, oh, you know, it has the, the, the ability to be able to feature a lot of different characters.

Yes.

And we were doing sketches and we were trying to figure this thing out, and we're just going, dang, it ain't work.

It's not working.

You know?

It's not working.

And I remember Raven was sitting in the office right over here in the production office, and she was somewhat of a, you know, a burgeoning visual artist herself.

And she was going, well, what if she said, what if you made the dish a saucer?

A flying saucer, and we're just going, oh, man, that's a great idea.

That is great idea.

So we said, you know, just sketches up something.

So she made a very, very basic sketch, you know, and so we took it from there.

And when I was going through the book, it just reminded me of.

And I don't know if you ever heard of this before pageant of the Masters.

We absolutely love it as a family.

We see it every year.

And so every time I was looking at how you re-animated these, you know, nursery rhymes, I was thinking pageant the Masters because you start to put those different images in there.

I mean, are you thinking that too?

Or you just thinking, I do love pageant of the Masters, by the way.

I did in North County for 17 years.

Yeah, we go all the time.

But you know, it was.

Wow.

I mean, you're at the.

This book is at that level.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

You're welcome.

It's true, it's true.

It's very nice to hear that.

It's very nice to hear.

And the behind the scenes.

And that's so much a part of the story here.

It's not only these these 12 rhymes in the finished illustration.

For each one of those, we have a traditional type of illustration that goes along with each one of these rhymes.

That was done by a wonderful, artist and teacher named Rachel Caputo, who is on the autism spectrum.

And she created these Disney quality traditional illustrations that are, you know, something that people as they open the book.

Oh, yes.

I'm familiar with Jack and Jill, and here we are.

They are falling, you know, falling down the hill and then you get to the reanimated version of these.

And in the case of Jack and Jill, we have the very, very wonderful and talented Deborah Wilson from mad TV.

And probably every voiceover project you've heard in the past ten years.

You got her in there somewhere.

She is working all the time and she plays old Dame DOB and in the rhyme that not all of us are familiar with.

The second, you know, verse where, you know, Jack and Jill went up the hill to fetch a pail of water.

Jack fell down and broke his crown.

And Jill came tumbling after.

But in the second half of the rhyme he goes to old dame dog, patches his knob with vinegar and brown paper.

And so we're going, who is this dame?

Dame character?

Who's she?

So we made her kind of this mystical shaman character through which Jack, who was played by Luke Zimmerman from Secret Life of the American Teenager and Jill is played by Jamie Brewer.

That did.

How many seasons on American Horror Story?

Three seasons, I think.

Is that the right three, three, three seasons on American Story?

So we're bringing bringing in this population.

And, you know, even though those those actors have Down's syndrome, you know, it's not part of the story.

It's just just happens to be actors that are playing these characters.

And so we created this very, very mystical, magical, dark, experience for, for that time.

And then all the photographs of the behind the scenes work show the, the absolute A level production values that we brought to this thing.

We use this this studio right here is where we took all the photographs.

And, you know, our amazing team, amazing team of people working on this.

Well, in this book is out there.

So tell our audience how they can get this book and then let our audience know how they can continue to support what you're doing.

Absolutely.

So you just go to Amazon, type in Mother Goose reanimated up.

It comes up, becomes hard copy, paperback copy, Kindle versions.

You can also go to Evan Rall.

Okay, Evan e b e n r a hl.

Thank you all.

Dot com slash mgr.

Mgr.

Mother goose ranch.

Yes.

Go to it takes you directly to the book's website.

It's got wonderful behind the scenes stuff.

It's got video, it's got music, it's got backstory.

Listen, state funding always a little dicey.

We never know from year to year how it's, you know, how that funding is going to affect what we can and cannot do.

And, you know, we we rely on not only the state but in the generosity of, you know, people that we've worked with over the years to you know, give us additional support.

And, you know, we have we have such wonderful plans moving forward for Mother Goose Re-Animated.

We have people that are interested in helping us pitch this for a, for a television series.

And, you know, we are currently working on a sizzle reel.

We're working on a pitch deck, and we are just hoping the industry is going to be as open to this as the people that have supported us from the industry thus far.

So we're taking it to the next level.

Oh, you are definitely taking it to the next level, John.

I just love what you're doing and all of you, what you're doing to remember me when you start winning those awards, okay?

Because you are doing a phenomenal job here in this book, and I so appreciate you welcoming our show into your studio.

And thank you for joining us on everybody with Angela Williams.

And a special thank you to the Performing Arts Studio West in Inglewood for welcoming our show.

Viewers like you make this show possible.

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Good night and stay well.

I'm always going to try to get on you.

I'm so honored for.

Me to be.