♪♪ >> Cathy: THIS TUESDAY, LEGISLATION WAS INTRODUCED THAT COULD END THE NORTHSTAR RAI LINE BETWEEN THE TWIN CITIES AND BIG LAKE, MINNESOTA.

THIS ON THE HEELS OF A MNDOT REPORT ON THE COST AND ALTERNATIVES TO THE RAIL LINE WITH DWINDLING RIDERSHIP SINCE THE PANDEMIC.

MNDOT COMMISSIONER AND THE MET COUNCIL CHAIR SUPPORT THE MOVE TO DISCONTINUE THE LINE, BUT SOME DFL LAWMAKERS HAVE EXPRESSED CONCERNS AT SUCH A CHANGE.

JOINING US RIGHT NOW IS THE HOUSE TRANSPORTATION CHAIR AND BILL AUTHOR, REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE JON KOZNIK FROM LAKEVILLE.

HERE TOO IS D.F.L.

REPRESENTATIVE ESTHER AGBAJE FROM MINNEAPOLIS, NORTHSTAR LINE RUNS RIGHT THROUGH HER DISTRICT.

GOOD TO SEE YOU BOTH.

WELL, REPRESENTATIVE KOZNICK, THE NORTHSTAR LINE'S LONG HAD STRUGGLES, RIGHT?

SO WHEN YOU LOOK BACK ON THIS WHOLE ENDEAVOR, WAS IT A MISTAKE TO EVEN START THIS PROJECT OR NO?

>> I THINK IT WAS STARTED WITH GOOD INTENTIONS, BUT WE KNEW FROM ALMOST DAY ONE AND YEAR ONE THAT THE RIDERSHIP PROJECTIONS WERE NEVER MET.

AND SO WE'RE EXCITED AND MINNESOTANS SHOULD BE EXCITED THAT WE FINALLY, THE NUMBERS HAVE BEEN REALIZED AND RECOGNIZED AND WE CAN PROVIDE BETTER, MORE EFFICIENT TRANSIT SYSTEMS IN THAT CORRIDOR FOR A LOT LESS MONEY AND WE'RE GOING TO CUT THE BLEEDING AND THE BOONDOGGLE.

>> Cathy: YET, THERE ARE FOLKS WHO USE THIS, RIGHT?

SO TALK ABOUT HOW YOUR CONSTITUENTS VIEW THIS.

>> YEAH, FROM THE LETTERS I'VE RECEIVED FROM MY CONSTITUENTS THEY'RE VERY MUCH INTERESTED IN KEEPING THIS LINE GOING.

I THINK IT'S A LIFELINE FOR THEM TO GET TO WORK OR TO GET AROUND.

AND IT WAS ALSO ORIGINALLY I THINK MEANT TO BE A REGIONAL TRANSIT CORRIDOR.

THE ORIGINAL PLAN FOR THE LINE WAS TO GO ALL THE WAY UP TO ST.

CLOUD WHICH IT NEVER HAS DONE THAT YET, IT STOPS AT BIG LAKE AND SO I THINK THAT PROBABLY CONSTITUTES SOME OF THE ISSUES THAT WE'RE SEEING WITH THE LINE NOW.

>> Eric: WOULD THE STATE HAVE TO SEND BACK SOME MONEY TO WASHINGTON IF IT'S DISCONTINUED?

>> WE'RE HOPING NOT.

THE LEGISLATION THAT I INTRODUCED ASKS FOR A WAIVER OF THAT.

WE'VE SEEN AS MUCH AS THIS WEEK IN CALIFORNIA, TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY DUFFY IS TAKING A LOOK AT SOME OF THESE LINES.

BUT EVEN IF WE DO HAVE, IT'S GOING TO BE A LOT LESS THAN IT USED TO BE.

BUT IT WILL BE THE REPAYMENT PERIOD WILL BE VERY SHORT AND TAXPAYERS WILL RECOGNIZE A SAVINGS OVERALL.

WE'RE LOSING $16 MILLION A YEAR IN OPERATING EXPENSES, PLUS OVER $37 MILLION PLANNED TO SPEND ON CAPITAL MAINTENANCE AND OPERATIONS IN THE NEXT FIVE YEARS.

WE'RE GOING TO RECOVER ANY MONEY THAT WE MAY HAVE TO PAY RELATIVELY QUICKLY AND WE CAN PROVIDE BETTER TRANSIT SERVICE.

AND THE FACT IS ONLY ABOUT 400 PEOPLE OR LESS ARE USING IT A DAY.

AND THAT'S JUST NOT SUSTAINABLE, IT'S NOT FEASIBLE OR VIABLE.

>> Cathy: WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT?

THAT IS A LOT OF MONEY.

>> YES, EVERYTHING COSTS MONEY, RIGHT?

SO I THINK WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT WHERE OUR PRIORITIES LIE, RIGHT?

I WOULD SAY THAT WE'RE THINKING ABOUT HOLISTIC TRANSIT NETWORK ACROSS OUR WHOLE STATE OR ACROSS OUR WHOLE REGION WE NEED TO LOOK AT ALL OF THE MULTI MODES OF TRANSPORTATION TO GET PEOPLE WHERE THEY NEED TO GO.

IF MET COUNCIL IS LOOKING AT THIS AND SAYING MAYBE THEY HAVE ANOTHER OPTION I HOPE THEY'RE LOOKING REALLY CLOSELY AT WHAT PEOPLE ACTUALLY NEED AND NOT BUILDING SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE WON'T USE OR THAT PEOPLE WON'T ACTUALLY WANT TO GET ON.

BUT I WOULD SAY THAT CURRENTLY RIGHT NOW WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE USING IT, THEY RELY ON THAT AND SO I THINK WHAT WOULD BE NICE TO SEE IS WHAT THE ACTUAL ALTERNATIVE WOULD BE.

>> Cathy: WHAT WOULD YOU SUGGEST AN ALTERNATIVE MIGHT BE?

USING BUSES?

>> I MEAN, I THINK AN ALTERNATIVE COULD TAKE ALL SORTS OF FORMS, RIGHT?

SO IT DEPENDS NOW ALSO TOO WHAT IS THE IDEA, WHERE ARE WE TRYING TO GET PEOPLE TO GO.

IF IT'S STILL JUST SORT OF TOWARDS THE NORTHERN SUBURBS I THINK MAYBE THERE MIGHT BE OME OTHER OPPORTUNITIES, MAYBE THAT INCLUDES BUSES, MAYBE THAT INCLUDES SOME TYPE OF OTHER SHORT LINE SYSTEM OR SOMETHING.

IF WE WANT TO MAKE IT MORE REGIONAL LIKE HOW WE ORIGINALLY THOUGHT IT WAS GOING TO GO TO ST.

CLOUD, AND THERE IS A NEED TO CONNECT THE POPULATION CENTERS ACROSS THE STATE, MAYBE THAT'S SOMETHING WE SHOULD START TO CONSIDER ABOUT HOW DO WE MOVE PEOPLE AROUND THE STATE.

>> Eric: BROADER PICTURE, WOULD RAPID BUS TRANSIT BE LESS POLITICALLY DANGEROUS THAN FIXED RAIL, LIGHT RAIL?

SEEMS LIKE THERE PROBABLY WOULD BE A BETTER CHEAPER AUDIENCE FOR THE BUSES MAYBE.

>> WELL, I THINK IF YOU LIVE IN RAMSEY, FRIDLEY, COON RAPIDS, ALL THE PLACES ALONG THAT CORRIDOR YOU SHOULD BE EXCITED BECAUSE AS THE MET COUNCIL STATED AND WE SUPPORT THAT YOU'RE GOING TO AVE BETTER SERVICE, HIGHER QUALITY SERVICE, MORE CONSISTENT WITH THE BUS RAPID TRANSIT, MORE REGULAR ROUTE SERVICE AND WE CAN DO THAT FOR INCREDIBLY LESS MONEY THAN WHAT WE'RE CURRENTLY SPENDING ON THE NORTHSTAR.

AND SO THAT'S A WIN FOR TRANSIT.

>> Eric: WHERE ARE YOU ON THIS BILL THAT WOULD REQUIRE THE CURRENT SOUTHWEST IGHT RAIL TO STOP UNTIL -- WHAT HAPPENS, THERE'S SOMETHING THAT HAPPENS AND THEN IT CAN BE STARTED AGAIN?

>> YEAH, THERE WAS A BILL INTRODUCED AND WE AMENDED IT TO CLARIFY A LITTLE BIT FOR THE BLUE LINE EXTENSION AND ANY OTHER LIGHT RAIL EXPENSES IN THE STATE OF MINNESOTA TO WATCH OUT FOR TAXPAYERS' OLLARS MAKE SURE THEY'RE USED EFFICIENTLY.

LET'S HIT THE BRAKES ON THAT, MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S AN ANALYSIS STUDY OF WHAT OTHER MODES OF OPERATION MIGHT BE MORE, -- LESS EXPENSIVE, EQUAL RIDERSHIP AND GET PEOPLE TO WHERE THEY WANT TO GO A LOT QUICKER AND THAT'S A STUDY THAT WAS VOTED DOWN BUT REPUBLICANS SUPPORTED THAT.

>> Cathy: YOU KNOW, YOU MENTIONED TRYING TO CONNECT THE DIFFERENT POPULATION CENTERS.

I WONDER ABOUT THE BOREALIS LINE SEEMS TO BE REALLY POPULAR GOING TO CHICAGO.

CAN THAT BE RUN UP INTO OTHER PARTS OF THE STATE OF MINNESOTA?

WOULD THAT BE SOMETHING YOU ALL WOULD LOOK AT?

>> IT'S POSSIBLE, I MEAN, I THINK ANYTHING REALLY SHOULD BE ON THE TABLE, RIGHT, HOW DO WE CONNECT ALL OF THESE AREAS, PARTICULARLY IN THE MIDWEST AND LIKE THAT TRAIN LINE THAT OES DOWN TO CHICAGO, I EVEN KNOW OTHER COLLEAGUES OF MINE THAT ARE LOOKING AT THAT TO BE ABLE TO GO TO CONFERENCES AND THINGS DOWN THERE, SO I THINK THAT THAT'S GREAT.

REAL QUICK THING ON THE BLUE LINE EXTENSION I THINK WE NEED TO REMEMBER THAT TAXPAYERS DO RIDE THAT TRAIN AND WOULD RIDE THAT TRAIN, AND SO WE ALSO NEED TO BE CONSIDERATE OF THOSE TAXPAYERS AND THOSE COMMUNITIES WHO ARE OFTEN OVERLOOKED ND UNDERINVESTED AND MAKING SURE THAT WE'RE PROVIDING SOMETHING FOR THEM THAT WORKS FOR EM.

>> Eric: APPRECIATE YOU JOINING US.

>> IF WE CAN DO IT FOR 10% OF