>> "ALMANAC" IS A PRODUCTION OF TWIN CITIES PBS FOR THE STATIONS OF MINNESOTA PUBLIC TELEVISION ASSOCIATION.

>> CATHY: COMING UP ON "ALMANAC," MINNEAPOLIS MAYOR JACOB FREY IS HERE.

THE HEAD OF CANNABIS MANAGEMENT JOINS US TO TALK ABOUT NEW DELAYS.

THE STEELES WILL KICK OFF THE HOLIDAY SEASON FOR US AMONG THE SPARKLY TREES.

AND MARY LAHAMMER PROFILES A RETIRING CAPITOL LEGEND.

♪ >> "ALMANAC" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY MEMBERS OF THIS PUBLIC TELEVISION STATION.

SUPPORT IS ALSO PROVIDED BY... GREAT RIVER ENERGY: PROVIDING WHOLESALE POWER TO 27 MINNESOTA ELECTRIC COOPERATIVES.

DELTA DENTAL OF MINNESOTA FOUNDATION: IMPROVING ORAL HEALTH WHILE ADVANCING SOCIAL EQUITIES.

DELTADENTALMN.ORG/TPT.

EDUCATION MINNESOTA: THE VOICE FOR PROFESSIONAL EDUCATORS AND STUDENTS THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

MORE AT EDUCATIONMINNESOTA.ORG.

AND PAINT CARE, HELPING MINNESOTANS RECYCLE LEFTOVER PAINT.

MORE AT PAINTCARE.ORG.

>> CATHY: WE HAVE A FULL SHOW FOR YOU TONIGHT.

WE'LL TALK WITH REPORTERS COVERING THE SLAYING OF UNITED HEALTH CARE CEO BRIAN THOMPSON.

THE HEAD OF CANNABIS MANAGEMENT IS HERE WITH UPDATES.

AND WE'LL HAVE SOME HOLIDAY MUSIC WITH THE STEELES.

>> ERIC: WE START TONIGHT WITH A BUSY WEEK FOR ELECTED OFFICIALS IN THE CITY OF MINNEAPOLIS.

ON TUESDAY THE CITY COUNCIL OVERWHELMINGLY APPROVED NEXT YEAR'S BUDGET.

ON WEDNESDAY, MAYOR JACOB FREY QUICKLY VETOED THE ENTIRE 2025 BUDGET.

ON THURSDAY THE CITY COUNCIL OVERRODE THE MAYOR'S VETO.

IT'S FRIDAY.

HOW ARE THINGS GOING?

MINNEAPOLIS MAYOR JACOB FREY JOINS US TONIGHT.

MAYOR, THANKS FOR BEING HERE.

I WONDER IF A LOT OF THE DISAGREEMENT IS STILL KIND OF A HOLDOVER FROM GEORGE FLOYD.

AND YOU'VE CALLED PUBLIC SAFETY YOUR NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.

BUT IS THAT STILL CAUSING REPERCUSSIONS?

>> OBVIOUSLY WE'RE STILL WORKING THROUGH THE AVENUEMATH OF GEORGE FLOYD AND THE CONSEQUENCES OF IT.

BUT, NO, I DON'T THINK THAT'S THE UNDERLYING REASON.

WE'VE HAD -- I'VE HAD TEN BUDGETS, BOTH AS A COUNCIL MEMBER AND AS MAYOR.

SEVERAL HAVE HAPPENING AFTER GEORGE FLOYD'S MURDER.

I HAVE SIGNED OR VOTED FOR EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM UNTIL NOW.

THERE IS A DRASTIC DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE BUDGET WE WERE LOOKING AT THIS YEAR AND THE PREVIOUS ONES.

NOW, THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT I LIKED ALL OF THE PREVIOUS BUDGETS OR I WAS SUPPORTIVE OF EVERY LINE ITEM IN IT.

BUT WE GENERATED SOME FORM OF CONSENSUS WHERE I COULD GET TO A BUDGET WHERE I FELT LIKE IT WAS PRODUCTIVE FOR OUR CITY.

WITH THIS MOST RECENT BUDGET, IT WAS IRRESPONSIBLE.

>> Eric: IS THERE THAT MUCH DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE COUNCIL AND YOU?

I WONDER IF THERE'S SOME HUFFING AND PUFFING GEEING ALONG IN ADVANCE OF THE ELECTION IN 2025?

>> NO, LET ME -- RATHER THAN GIVE YOU MY SUBJECTIVE OPINION ON THIS, LET ME GIVE YOU SOME OBJECTIVE FACTS.

NORMALLY WHEN YOU GO THROUGH A BUDGET, THERE'S FIVE, TEN, 15, AMENDMENTS TO IT IN TOTAL.

THIS BUDGET WE WERE LOOKING AT ABOUT 80.

THE COUNCIL HAD 80 AMENDMENTS.

THE FISCAL MENTALITY HERE WAS ALSO WAY OFF.

>> Cathy: AND WERE THESE PROGRAMMED VETTED PRIOR?

>> NO, THEY WEREN'T.

THE PROGRAMS WEREN'T VETTED.

THE AMENDMENTS LARGELY WERE NOT VETTED.

THEY ARE SPENDING $6.5 MILLION OF NEW SPENDING ON TOP OF THE $15.9 MILLION THAT THEY CUT FROM CORE CITY SERVICES AND THEN FUNDED OTHER PET PROJECTS WITH IT.

AND THAT'S THE UNDERLYING PROBLEM HERE.

IS THAT WE HAVE A COUNCIL THAT NISSWA CUTTING A WHOLE LOT OF NEEDS AND DDING A WHOLE LOT OF WANTS.

AND WHEN YOU'RE CUTTING CORE CITY SERVICES LIKE FILLING POTHOLES AND PLOWING THE STREET AND TURNING ON STREET LIGHTS, AND THEN DIVERTING IT TO AS BENEVOLENT AS THEY MAY BE A NUMBER OF OUTSIDE NON-PROFITS, THAT IS NOT THE RIGHT CHOICE.

>> Cathy: HOW DO YOU MOVE AHEAD THEN WITH A BUDGET THAT YOU DISAGREE WITH?

>> WELL, LOOK, WE'VE GOT A NUMBER OF INCREDIBLE CITY EMPLOYEES, PEOPLE THAT CARE SO DEEPLY ABOUT MINNEAPOLIS, AND WE'RE GOING TO FIND A WAY.

WE'RE GOING TO MAKE THIS RIGHT.

BUT, YES THE COUNCIL DID PUT SOME REALLY SERIOUS HURDLES IN THE WAY.

NOTABLY, THIS -- THE REPERCUSSIONS OF THIS BUDGET WE'LL SEE PRETTY SIGNIFICANTLY INCREASED PROPERTY TAXES IN YEARS TO COME.

A NUMBER OF THE PILOTS THAT THEY HAVE FUNDED AND POLICIES THAT THEY HAVE PUSHED OUT WERE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO COMPLETE.

WHY?

BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE THE INTERNAL RESOURCES, BUT ALSO, WE ARE FACING SOME PRETTY SERIOUS ECONOMIC AND FISCAL TIMES RIGHT NOW.

WE'VE GOT DONALD TRUMP IN OFFICE AND HE'S PRETTY EXPLICITLY SAID THAT HE'S GOING TO DENY CITIES THAT HARBOR UNDOCUMENTS IMMIGRANTS OF FEDERAL FUNDS AND IF THAT'S THE CASE, WE GOT TO HAVE A RESERVE.

WELL, THE COUNCIL JUST CUT THE REFER.

WE'VE GOT A STATE GOVERNMENT THAT DOESN'T HAVE SUBSTANTIAL MONIES ALSO, WHICH OBVIOUSLY IS THE CASE RIGHT NOW.

WE DON'T HAVE OTHER PEOPLE THAT ARE GOING TO COME TO OUR RESCUE.

WE'VE GOT TO DO THE RESPONSIBLE THING OURSELVES.

>> Cathy: WHAT DO YOU THINK, THEN ABOUT -- THIS WAS THE FIRST VETO AND THE OVERRIDE IN CITY HISTORY.

WHAT DPUZ THAT SAY ABOUT THE ONGOING ELATIONSHIP YOU THINK YOURSELF AND THE COUNCIL?

>> SO I'VE BEEN THROUGH MANY DIFFERENT COUNCILS.

I WAS ON THE CITY COUNCIL MYSELF.

AND LIKE I SAID, YOU'VE NEVER VOTE VETOED A BUDGET BEFORE.

THAT WAS REALLY NEVER PART OF THE CARDS.

WHAT I'M SEEING NOW OVER THIS LAST YEAR IS A COUNCIL THAT WANTS TO PUSH FURTHER AND FURTHER TO THE EXTREME.

ESPECIALLY AFTER DONALD TRUMP IS ELECTED.

I'VE HEARD A NUMBER OF THEM SAY THAT WE'VE GOT TO COUNTER HIM BY OING FURTHER TO THE LEFT.

AND THE OPPOSITE OF EXTREMISM IS NOT THE OPPOSITE EXTREME.

THE OPPOSITE OF EXTREMISM IS GOOD THOUGHTFUL GOVERNMENT WHERE WE LISTEN TO EXPERTS AND WE ANALYZE DATA AND WE USE THAT DATA TO MAKE BETTER DECISIONS.

MY CONCERN NOW IS ACTUALLY LESS ABOUT POLICY.

IT'S MORE ABOUT THE FACT THAT WE'VE GOT THESE INCREDIBLE EXPERTS T CITY HALL THAT ARE LARGELY IGNORED.

I'M NOT AN EXPERT IN FISCAL ECONOMICS BUT THERE ARE PEOPLE AT THE CITY THAT ARE.

THERE ARE PEOPLE AT THE CITY THAT DO THAT WORK AS A LIVING.

AND WE NEED TO BE TRUSTING THEM MORE.

>> Eric: WELL, FENCES TO MEND, MAYBE WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS IN THE NEW YEAR.

APPRECIATE YOU COMING OVER.

THANKS, MAYOR, WE ARE HOPING TO CHECK IN WITH A MEMBER OF THE MINNEAPOLIS CITY COUNCIL NEXT FRIDAY.

GOING TO HEAD OVER TO THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STUDIO NOW FOR OUR NEXT CONVERSATION.

BE RIGHT BACK.

♪♪ >> CATHY: THE MURDER OF BRIAN MINNETONKA-BASED UNITED HEALTHCARE INSURANCE COMPANY, LAST WEEK IN NEW YORK HAS DOMINATED NATIONAL AND LOCAL NEWS.

POLICE HAVE ARRESTED AND CHARGED LUIGI MANGIONE FOR THE MURDER, WHILE THE KILLING HAS SPARKED INTENSE CONVERSATION ABOUT THE BROADER AMERICAN HEALTHCARE AND INSURANCE INDUSTRIES.

CHRISTOPHER SNOWBECK COVERS HEALTHCARE FOR THE "MINNESOTA STAR TRIBUNE," WHICH IS ALSO THE BEAT AND THE EMPLOYER OF JEREMY OLSON.

THANK YOU BOTH FOR BEING HERE.

CHRISTOPHER, YOU AND I HAD A CHANCE TO TALK EARLIER THIS WEEK ON MINNESOTA PUBLIC RADIO AND YOU'VE BEEN IN THE BUSINESS ILONG TIME AS HAVE I, AND WE BOTH AGREED, WE HAVEN'T SEEN PUBLIC REACTION LIKE THIS.

WHAT DO YOU THINK IS BEHIND IT?

>> A LITTLE -- THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF -- SOCIAL MEDIA IS A BIG -- WE SEE MORE THAN WE DID IN THE '90s.

THERE WAS VITRIOL IN THE '90s.

THERE WAS GREAT CONTROVERSY AROUND THIS AS WELL, PUSHBACK AGAINST H.M.O.s.

BUT I THINK WE SEE A LOT ORE WITH SOCIAL MEDIA.

AND I THINK THE INDUSTRY IS CLEARLY HEARING IT.

I MEAN, EVEN JUST BEFORE I CAME OVER TONIGHT, YOU KNOW, UNITED HEALTH GROUP HAS ISSUED WHAT THEY CALL A STATEMENT AGAINST MISINFORMATION ABOUT THEIR CLAIMS DENIAL RATE.

>> Eric: DO WE KNOW -- DO WE HAVE DATA ON DENIALS OR IS THAT AVAILABLE TOLL THE PUBLIC?

>> YEAH, THERE'S DATA HERE AND THERE.

THERE WAS A SENATE SUBCOMMITTEE REPORT LOOKING AT DENIALS BY UNITED HEALTHCARE AND TWO OTHER INSURERS OF POST-HOSPITAL CARE.

AND THIS IS REALLY EXPENSIVE CARE.

AND UNITED HEALTH DENIES THAT, PRIOR AUTHORIZATION REQUESTS FOR THAT AT A HIGHER RATE THAN OTHER THINGS.

THAT WAS AN EXAMPLE WHERE THERE WAS SOME INFLATED DENIAL OF CLAIMS TO SAVE MONEY.

OR AT LEAST THAT WAS THE ALLEGATION.

>> Eric: ELIDS BETH WARREN, U.S.

SENATOR, SAID OF THE SHOOTING, IT'S A WARNING TO EVERYONE IN HE HEALTHCARE SYSTEM.

ARE THEY GOING TO DO MORE THAN JUST LOCK BUILDINGS AND HIRE BODYGUARDS?

OR DO YOU THINK THERE'S GOING TO BE A SINCERE EFFORT TO SPARK SOME CHANGE HERE?

>> I DON'T KNOW.

IT'S -- I FIND IT A REALLY COMPLICATED ISSUE, BECAUSE JEREMY AND I HAVE READ THE STUDIES AND THE DATA AND E'VE ANALYZED THE DATA.

THE THING IS LIKE SO MANY THINGS IN HEALTHCARE, THERE'S A LOT OF COMPLEXITY HERE.

AND YOU WANT A LITTLE NUMBER THAT YOU CAN PIN T ALL ON.

BUT YOU START PEELING, AND I THINK BECAUSE OF THAT COMPLEXITY, CHANGE GETS BOGGED DOWN.

>> CAN I OFFER A SIMPLE SOLUTION TO SAVING HEALTHCARE DOLLARS, THOUGH?

DON'T SHOOT PEOPLE.

IN THE ERA OF VIGILANTE JUSTICE, PUBLIC HEALTH MESSAGES, IF YOU'VE BEEN A TRAUMA CENTER AND SEEN THE LIVE-SAVING WORK THAT DOCTORS DO, IT'S AMAZING, BUT IT'S ALSO AMAZINGLY EXPENSIVE.

IT'S THE SAME THING WITH OTHER THINGS, WITH EATING HEALTHY, THERE ARE WAYS WE CAN CUT DOWN HEALTHCARE COSTS WITHOUT DEALING WITH THE RED TAPE.

>> Cathy: WHAT DO YOU THINK PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND ABOUT THIS, THE GENERAL PUBLIC?

JUST CURIOUS?

>> ABOUT WHICH?

>> Cathy: ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE?

WHAT DON'T PEOPLE UNDERSTAND ABOUT THE SYSTEM?

THEY'RE ANGRY AT THE SYSTEM BUT WHAT DON'T THEY UNDERSTAND ABOUT IT?

>> IN THE LAST YEAR, I'VE DONE A FEW STORIES ABOUT SOME FOLKS WHO HAD CARE, THOUGHT EVERYTHING WAS GOING TO BE OKAY, AND THEN GOT REALLY BIG BILLS AFTER THE FACT AND PROTRACTED ARGUMENTS WITH SORT OF GETTING CAUGHT IN BETWEEN INSURERS AND HEALTHCARE PROVIDERS BOUT WHAT WAS THE BILL, WAS THE PROVIDER IN NETWORK, WAS THE PRIOR AUTHORIZATION LEGIT?

AND SO I THINK WHAT PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND IS TRULY LIKE INCOMPREHENSIBLE TO MOST OF US.

LIKE, THERE IS A HIGH DEGREE -- THERE'S A VERY COMPLEX SORT OF BACK AND FORTH THAT HAPPENS THAT PERCENTFULLY WE'RE IGNORANT OF MOST OF THE TIME.

>> Eric: DID ONE OF THE ANONYMOUS SOURCES THAT WAS -- COULD SPEAK FREELY, WASN'T THE QUOTE, THE SYSTEM IS, QUOTE, SUCH A MESS?

>> YEAH.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> Eric: SO THERE'S AN ACKNOWLEDGMENT THAT SOMETHING NEEDS TO CHANGE OR -- >> THERE IS, AND IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S MORE COMPLICATED THAN YOU THINK BECAUSE EVERYONE SAYS, OH, MY PREMIUMS ARE GOING UP.

THESE DARN FOR-PROFIT COMPANIES.

I'LL BET THOSE PEOPLE THAT ARE SAYING IT HAVE A 401K AND I'LL BET THAT 401K IS ALSO CONTINGENT ON GROWTH -- >> Eric: SHAREHOLDER VALUE.

>> YEAH, WE'RE ALL INVESTED IN SHAREHOLDER VALUE AND THAT INCREASING.

SO I GET THE POINT ABOUT RISING COSTS.

THEY ABSOLUTELY ARE GOING UP ASTRONOMICALLY, UNITED HEALTH IS A PART OF THAT.

BUT WE'RE ALSO IN A FREE MARKET SYSTEM THAT WE'RE BENEFITING FROM AS WELL.

>> Eric: WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF THE RESPONSE, THE OP-ED THAT ANDREW WITTE WROTE IN THE "NEW YORK TIMES" AND THEN IT WAS REPUBLISHED IN THE "STAR TRIBUNE."

THE LEADER OF UNITED HEALTH AT THIS POINT?

NOT ACKNOWLEDGING THAT THINGS HAD TO CHANGE.

BUT YOU LOOK AT THIS AND THINK, REALLY?

WHAT'S THE PUSH TOWARD ANY CHANGE?

>> YEAH, I MEAN, THAT'S THE THING, IS IT WINDOW DRESSING?

IS IT JUST -- I MEAN, I THINK IT'S A QUESTION OF ATTENTION SPAN.

IN SOME WAYS.

I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY HIS IS -- WE'VE GONE FROM THIS HORRIBLE TRAGEDY FOR A FAMILY IN OUR COMMUNITY.

YOU KNOW, WHICH WE -- GETS LOST SIGHT OF IN ALL OF THIS, WHICH IS TERRIBLE.

AND -- BUT PART OF THE REASON IS, THIS IS -- THIS OTHER ISSUE HAS BEEN OUT THERE SINCE THE '90s.

IT WAS A HOT BUTTON ISSUE THEN, AND WE KIND OF FORGOT ABOUT IT.

AND IT'S -- IT COMES AND GOES, AND COMES AND GOES, AND COMES AND GOES, AND SO I DON'T KNOW IF WE'LL BE PAYING ATTENTION LONG ENOUGH TO SEE CHANGE.

>> Eric: YOU GUYS WILL BE ON THE CASE AS THE 2025 POLICY THINGS GET UNVEILED, AND SEE P IF SOME CHANGES ARE MADE IN HEALTHCARE.

>> RIGHT.

>> THAT TENDS TO COME UP IN THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION.

>> Eric: STARTRIBUNE.COM.

GOODS TO SEE YOU UYS.

♪♪, >> ERIC: ON WEDNESDAY THE STATE OFFICE OF CANNABIS MANAGEMENT PULLED THE SO-CALLED SOCIAL EQUITY PRE-APPROVAL LOTTERY AFTER A DELAY DUE TO PENDING LAWSUITS FROM APPLICANTS WHO FEEL THEY WERE UNFAIRLY DENIED.

THE ORIGINAL TIMELINE HAD MINNESOTA LAUNCHING THE CANNABIS MARKET IN EARLY 2025.

NOW THE GENERAL APPLICATION PROCESS IS SET FOR FEBRUARY WITH ANOTHER ROUND FOR SOCIAL EQUITY APPLICANTS PUSHED TO MAY OR JUNE.

ALL OF THIS COMES WITHOUT A PERMANENT LEADER FOR THIS OFFICE.

INTERIM O.C.M.

DIRECTOR CHARLENE BRINER CONTINUES TO STEER THE SHIP.

WELCOME BACK.

WELL?

[ Laughter ] CAN WE HANDLE THE DELAY?

ARE PEOPLE UPSET OR IS IT JUST PART OF LAUNCHING A VERY COMPLICATED DEAL?

>> SO, YOU KNOW, IT'S INTERESTING.

I WAS AT A CANNABIS EREGULATORS CONFERENCE A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO, AND THE POINT OF LICENSING IS ONE OF THE MOST CHALLENGED IN ANY STATE THAT DOES THIS BECAUSE GETTING TO MARKET EARLY IS REALLY AN ECONOMIC BENEFIT FOR THOSE EARLY OPERATORS.

SO IT'S NOT A SURPRISE THAT WE SEE LICENSING CHALLENGES.

I WOULD ALSO SAY THAT WHILE WE CERTAINLY DID NOT WANT TO SEE A DELAY FROM A STAY, THAT WE FEEL CONFIDENT THAT THE PIVOT THAT WE'VE TAKEN WILL STILL KEEP US ON TRACK TO LAUNCH A MARKET IN 2025.

SO I THINK THAT IT IS A COMPLICATED PROCESS.

THIS IS HIGHLY REGULATED SPACE.

AND APPLICANTS ETEST OF READINESS IS SUBMITTING A SUCCESSFUL APPLICATION, MAKING SURE THAT YOU CAN ACTUALLY OPERATE IN THIS SPACE, AND I FEEL CONFIDENT THAT AS WE MOVE INTO THE STANDARD LICENSING PROCESS, WE'LL ALSO HAVE TOOLS TO WORK WITH THESE APPLICANTS MORE CLOSELY.

>> Cathy: BUT THE CHANGING TIMELINES, THAT'S REALLY KIND OF CAUSING PEOPLE SOME CONCERN OBVIOUSLY, AND I'M WONDERING, CAN ANYONE START GROWING RIGHT NOW AT ALL?

>> NOT WITHOUT RULES.

WE ARE STILL IN THE PROCESS OF DEVELOPING RULES.

WE WILL HAVE THOSE IN PLACE.

WE ARE ON TRACK FOR THE END OF THE FIRST QUARTER OF 2025.

ONCE THOSE RULES ARE IN PLACE, THOSE 648 APPLICANTS WHO WERE IN THE PREAPPROVAL PROCESS SET FOR LOTTERY WILL BE ABLE TO MOVE FORWARD.

AND OF THOSE, 194 ARE WHAT WE CALL THE MICRO-BUSINESS LICENSE APPLICANTS.

THEY'LL BE ABLE ONCE RULES ARE IN PLACE, WE'RE GOING TO CONSIDER THOSE APPLICATIONS, AND OF THAT 194, THEY CAN CULTIVATE.

SO DEPENDING ON HOW QUICKLY THEY'RE READY FOR BUSINESS, THEY CAN GET PLANTS IN HE GROUND.

SO WE COULD SEE CULTIVATION BY, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS LATE SPRING, EARLY SUMMER.

>> Cathy: WHAT'S THE RULE THE TRIBAL NATIONS IN THIS?

THEY ALREADY ARE ON THE ROUND AT THIS POINT.

IF THERE'S STILL DELAYS, CAN THEY RAMP UP EVEN MORE?

>> THAT'S ALWAYS OUR TRIBAL PARTICIPATES HAVE ALWAYS EEN CONSIDERED A FOUNDATIONAL PARTED OF MINNESOTA'S MARKET.

WE TOOK A VERY DIFFERENT APPROACH IN MINNESOTA.

USUALLY YOU JUST SEE STATES FLIP THE SWITCH ON THEIR MEDICAL MARKET.

SO WE'RE GOING TO BE DEPENDENT ON BOTH OUR SMALLER OPERATORS AND OUR TRIBAL PARTNERS.

WE'RE ACTIVELY ENGAGED IN COMPACTING WITH TRIBES, GOVERNMENT ON GOVERNMENT COMPACTING.

WE'RE ON THE VERGE OF EXECUTING THOSE WITHIN THE NEXT COUPLE F MONTHS PROBABLY.

AND SOME OF THOSE TRIBES ARE ALREADY IN THE PROCESS OF CULTIVATING AND WILL BE POSITIONED TO SERVE THE COMMERCIAL MARKET.

SO THAT'S GOING TO BE A GREAT PIECE OF IT AS WELL.

>> Eric: HAVE THE NUMBER OF APPLICANTS SURPRISED YOU OR YOU THOUGHT ABOUT WHAT IT WAS GOING TO BE?

>> I THINK THAT IT WAS REALLY HARD TO PROJECT, BUT WHAT WE'VE SEEN IN OTHER STATES IS THAT WE SEE HUNDREDS, IF NOT THOUSANDS OF APPLICATIONS IN THESE EARLY ROUNDS, AND SO I WOULD ANTICIPATE WHEN WE OPEN FOR STANDARD LICENSING, WE'RE GOING TO EE MAYBE EVEN A BIGGER NUMBER.

>> Eric: AND HOW MANY DISPENSARIES -- IS THERE A LIMIT STATEWIDE?

>> THERE IS INITIALLY FOR RETAIL LICENSES FOR A COUPLE OF LICENSES WILL BE CAPPED IN STATUTE.

BUT FOR THE MICROS, THAT SMALL VERTICALLY INTEGRATED WHERE YOU CAN CULTIVATE, YOU CAN MANUFACTURE, YOU CAN SELL.

THERE'S NO CAP.

>> Cathy: WE KEEP HAVING YOU BACK, AND WE KEEP SAYING YOU'RE INTERIM.

>> I'M GOING FOR THE RECORD, CATHY.

[ Laughter ] >> Cathy: SO IF YOU'RE STILL SAYING THAT IT'S STILL POCK TO GET THINGS GOING BY LATE 2025, WILL YOU HANG IN THERE UNTIL LATE 2025?

>> I HAVE ALWAYS SAID THAT THIS IS AN INTERIM ROLE.

BUT I'M NOT GOING TO STAY IN THE ROLE PERMANENTLY.

AND I AM COMMITTED TO HELPING STEWARD THE OFFICE UNTIL THE TIME COMES.

>> Eric: YOU'RE CURSED WITH THE GIFT OF SERVICE I HAVE.

>> THAT IS A CURSE THAT I FEEL GRATEFUL THAT PEOPLE TRUST ME.

THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

♪ >> BEFORE WE GO TONIGHT, I HAVE, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, IN ME, I HAVE A DRUM ROLL, VERNON?

I HAVE, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, THE VERY SPECIAL ONOR OF INTRODUCING FORMALLY TO ALL OF YOU THE NEW COHOST OF "ALMANAC," A WOMAN WHOSE JOURNALISTIC SKILLS I'VE ADMIRED FOR YEARS AND WHOSE SMARTS AND WIT WILL KEEP "ALMANAC" ALIVE AND WELL FOR YEARS.

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, CATHY WURZER!

[ Cheers and applause ] HOW DOES IT FEEL, KID?

AND WE'RE THRILLED TO HAVE YOU.

SO FOR CATHERINE MARY WURZER, JO PAUL SUMMERS, ERIC LESLIE ESKOLA AND THE ENTIRE CREW OF "ALMANAC," THIS IS JAN INGRID'S BABY.

THANK YOU, EVERYBODY.

AND GOOD NIGHT!

♪ >> CATHY: THAT WAS A FUN NIGHT.

HERE I AM, 30 YEARS LATER, AND WE'RE CELEBRATING 40 YEARS OF "ALMANAC" THIS MONTH.

SPEAKING OF 40-YEAR CELEBRATIONS, THE STEELES HAD THEIR FIRST CHRISTMAS CONCERTS IN DECEMBER OF 1984.

GET OUT OF DODGE!

IS THAT REALLY!

HAPPY 40TH BIRTHDAY TO ALL OF US.

AND WE HAVEN'T CHANGED A BIT OBVIOUSLY.

IT'S FANTASTIC.

THE STEELES WILL PERFORM NEXT WEEKEND AT THE PANTAGES THEATER.

BUT FIRST, IT'S AN "ALMANAC" TRADITION THAT THEY STOP BY AND PREVIEW A TUNE OR TWO FOR US IN OUR SPARKLY TREE FILLED STUDIOS.

IT'S SO GOOD TO SEE YOU ALL, MY GOSH.

>> IT'S GOOD TO SEE YOU ALL.

>> THANK YOU.

THANK YOU, JAIRLIN AND OF COURSE J.D.

AND BILLY.

NOW, J.D., 40 YEARS, HOW DID YOU ALL START THIS 40-YEAR TRADITION?

>> YOU KNOW, WE STARTED IT AT THE CRICKET THEATER ACK IN 1984.

AND THEN WE'VE JUST KEPT DOING IT AND KEPT DOING IT AND WE'RE JUST EXCITED O KEEP DOING IT AGAIN THIS YEAR.

>> Cathy: WHAT'S THE JOY IN IT FOR YOU ALL?

>> THE JOY IS US SINGING TOGETHER AS A FAMILY AND BEING ABLE TO BE TOGETHER AS A FAMILY.

BECAUSE WE DO INDIVIDUAL PROJECTTHROUGHOUT THE COURSE OF A YEAR, UT BEING ABLE TO DO IT TOGETHER AS A FAMILY, THAT'S THE MOST JOY.

>> Cathy: THIS ISN'T GOING TO BE THE LAST ONE, IS IT?

>> WE DON'T KNOW.

>> OH, I LOVE JAVITA GOING, YEAH, IT IS.

WE'LL SEE.

WE'LL HAVE TO CONVINCE YOU TO IN BACK, THEN, I GUESS.

OKAY, SO I WANT TO KNOW.

YOU SAY EACH OF YOU HAVE THESE DIFFERENT PROJECTS, BUT WHEN YOU ALL GET TOGETHER FOR CHRISTMAS, IS IT -- DO YOU DO THE SAME NUMBERS?

DO YOU TRY TO CHANGE IT UP?

>> NO, WE DO DIFFERENT NUMBERS.

I THINK WE HAVE, WHAT, FOUR CHRISTMAS CDs?

IN WHICH HALF THE ATERIAL IS ORIGINAL MATERIAL.

AND THEN WE DO SOME OF THE CLASSIC TRADITIONAL MATERIAL.

SO WE LIKE TO SWITCH IT UP EVERY YEAR.

SO WE'RE EXCITED ABOUT THIS YEAR.

ONE OF THE MOST EXCITING THINGS FOR US THIS YEAR IS THAT OUR MUSICIANS ARE EXTRAORDINARY.

OUR NEPHEW IS ON DRUMS.

ON BASS IS OUR COUSIN CHRIS SMITH.

AND THEN WE HAVE THE WORLD-CLASS KENNY HOLEMAN -- >> Cathy: OH, GET OUT.

>> AND ON GUITAR WE HAVE KORY WONG WHO USED TO DO THE SHOW WITH US YEARS AGO.

>> Cathy: NOW, YOU'RE AT THE PANTAGES.

>> YOU CAN GO TO HENNEPINARTS.ORG.

AND THE SHOW IS ON SATURDAY, DECEMBER 21ST AT 7:00 P.M. AND ON SUNDAY, DECEMBER 22ND AT 3:00 P.M. FOR A MATINEE.

SO WE'RE EXCITED.

IT'S GOING TO BE FUN.

>> Cathy: IT'S GOING TO BE GREAT.

NOW, PLEASE SING FOR US.

IS THAT OKAY?

I'M GOING TO SNEAK BEHIND YOU, HERE.

THE STEELES.

♪ >> AH, OH ♪ ♪ AH, OH ♪ ♪ HAVE YOURSELF ♪ ♪ A MERRY LITTLE CHRISTMAS ♪ ♪ MAY YOUR HEARTS BE LIGHT ♪ ♪ FROM NOW ON ♪ ♪ OUR TROUBLES ♪ ♪ WILL BE OUT OF SIGHT ♪ ♪ OUT OF SIGHT ♪ ♪ OOH ♪ ♪ HAVE YOURSELF A MERRY LITTLE CHRISTMAS ♪ ♪ MAKE THE YULETIDE GAY ♪ ♪ FROM NOW ON ♪ ♪ OUR TROUBLES WILL BE MILES MILES AWAY ♪ ♪ MILES AWAY ♪ ♪ HERE WE ARE ♪ ♪ LIKE IN OLDEN DAYS ♪ ♪ HAPPY GOLDEN DAYS ♪ ♪ OF YORE ♪ ♪ FAITHFUL FRIENDS THAT ARE DEAR TO US ♪ ♪ GATHER NEAR TO US ♪ ♪ ONCE MORE ♪ ♪ OOH ♪ ♪ THROUGH THE YEARS ♪ ♪ WE ALL WILL BE TOGETHER ♪ ♪ AS THE FATES ALLOW ♪ ♪ FROM NOW ON ♪ ♪ OUR TROUBLES WILL BE MILES AWAY ♪ ♪ SO HAVE YOURSELF ♪ ♪ A MERRY LITTLE CHRISTMAS ♪ ♪ HAVE YOURSELF ♪ ♪ A MERRY LITTLE CHRISTMAS ♪ ♪ HAVE YOURSELF ♪ ♪ A MERRY LITTLE CHRISTMAS ♪ ♪ HAVE YOURSELF ♪ ♪ A MERRY LITTLE CHRISTMAS ♪ ♪ WON'T YOU HAVE YOURSELF ♪ ♪ OH ♪ ♪ A MERRY LITTLE CHRISTMAS ♪ ♪ HAVE YOURSELF ♪ ♪ A MERRY LITTLE CHRISTMAS ♪ ♪ NIGHT ♪ ♪ NIGHT ♪ ♪ NIGHT ♪ ♪ NIGHT ♪ ♪ NIGHT OOH ♪ [ Cheers and applause ] MERRY CHRISTMAS.

♪ >> ERIC: FOR MANY OF YOU WATCHING TONIGHT, A VISIT TO THE LONG-GONE DOWNTOWN MINNEAPOLIS DAYTON'S DEPARTMENT STORE WAS AN ANNUAL HOLIDAY TRADITION.

THE EIGHTH FLOOR AUDITORIUM WAS TRANSFORMED INTO A MAGICAL WONDERLAND OF STORYBOOKS BROUGHT TO LIFE.

NEXT TUESDAY NIGHT AT 7:00 P.M., "REMEMBER THE MAGIC" PREMIERES ON TWIN CITIES PBS.

IT WILL TAKE YOU BACK IN TIME.

HERE'S A SHORT EXCERPT TO WHET YOUR APPETITE.

>> IT'S WILD TO BE BACK HERE.

PEOPLE HAVE SORT OF WARNED ME AND SAID, OH, IT'S GOING TO BE SO STRANGE TO GOAP UP THERE, BUT OH, IT'S JUST WRECKED.

NAH.

THIS IS AN EMPTY AUDITORIUM.

WITH ALL THE PAINT ON THE FLOORS HANGING OUT.

THIS IS EXACTLY WHERE WE STARTED EVERY TIME.

EVERY TIME.

IT ACTUALLY MAKES ME A LITTLE NOSTALGIC, LIKE, HEY, KIDS, IT'S ALL STILL HERE.- >> BEFORE IT WAS MACY'S AND MARSHAL IELD'S, OWNTOWN MINNEAPOLIS WAS HOME TO THE ICONIC DEPARTMENT STORE DAYTON'S.

FOR OVER A CENTURY, IT ANCHORED HE TWIN CITIES RETAIL SCENE WITH HIGH-END FASHIONS, ONE OF A KIND MERCHANDISE, AND COSMOPOLITAN CHARM.

IT WAS THE SHOPPING DESTINATION.

ESPECIALLY DURING THE HOLIDAY SEASON.

WHAT STARTED AS ELABORATE WINDOW DISPLAYS AND VISITED TO SANTALAND EVOLVED INTO AN EXTRAORDINARY HOLIDAY SHOW SHARED BY MILLIONS FOR OVER FIVE DECADES.

THERE WAS NOTHING ELSE LIKE IT.

IT WAS A STORYBOOK ADVENTURE COME TO LIFE.

♪ >> ADIA: AFTER A LENGTHY TIME-OUT DUE TO CAT SHENANIGANS LEAVING A FEW BELOVED VINYL RECORDS WITH DEEP SCRATCHES, OUR RECORD PLAYER SLASH RADIO IS BACK IN ACTION.

IT’S NOWHERE NEAR THE MOST IMPRESSIVE SYSTEM, BUT IT WAS FREE.

99 AND WITH SMALL PEOPLE IN THE HOUSE WHO ARE STILL LEARNING THE FINER POINTS OF THEIR MOTOR SKILLS, IT SUITS OUR NEEDS.

MY KIDDO PLAYS RECORDS AND ZOOMS AROUND THE FIRST FLOOR, AND I TURN ON JAZZ 88 WHILE I PUTTER.

I’M SURE MY DAD IS LAUGHING AT “JAZZ 88."

MY SISTER AND I USED TO MERCILESSLY MOCK HIS “SMOOTH JAZZ” RADIO CHOICES AND NOW LOOK AT ME.

IT’S THE PERFECT TIME OF YEAR FOR JAZZ-INFUSED HOLIDAY TUNES IN THE BACKGROUND, THOUGH.

WITH THIS COLD SNAP, I JUST WANT TO DO THE MOST CLICHÉD, HALLMARK CHANNEL CHRISTMAS MOVIE THINGS: TURN ON THE TWINKLY LIGHTS, SNUGGLE UP UNDER A BLANKET, AND DRINK A MUG OF HOT CHOCOLATE WITH BOTH HANDS.

I WON’T BE TRYING TO ESCAPE MY HIGH-PRESSURE CITY LIFE BY LEAVING MY CORPORATE JOB TO BUY A FARM IN THE COUNTRY AND MEET A HUNKY LUMBERJACK, THOUGH.

I THINK MY HUSBAND MIGHT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT.

GOING BACK TO THE “SITTING STILL UNDER A BLANKET” PART: EVEN THOUGH I RARELY GET TO DO THAT, WHEN I DO PAUSE TO LISTEN TO THE SOFT HUM OF THE RADIO, I REALIZE HOW GRATEFUL I AM TO BE SHELTERED, WARM, AND WITH MY FAMILY.

THIS HOLIDAY SEASON, I HOPE THE SAME FOR YOU.

[ Applause ] ♪ >> CATHY: ASK YOURSELF, "IF I COULD LIVE MY LIFE OVER AGAIN, WHAT WOULD I DO DIFFERENTLY?"

IT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

THAT'S AMONG THE QUESTIONS THAT THE NEWEST EDITION OF THE SELF-HELP BOOK, "THE POWER OF PURPOSE," PUTS FORTH TO ITS READERS.

THE UPCOMING FOURTH EDITION FROM AUTHORS RICHARD LEIDER AND DAVID SHAPIRO COMPILES NEW STORIES AND BRINGS ABOARD A NEW CO-AUTHOR AND WHILE "ALMANAC" IS CELEBRATING 40 YEARS, OUR NEXT GUEST IS HITTING THAT SAME MILESTONE IN HIS OWN RIGHT.

FOUNDER OF INVENTURE, THE PURPOSE COMPANY, AND AUTHOR OF "THE POWER OF PURPOSE," RICHARD LEIDER, WELCOME.

AND A PBS FAVORITE.

WE ARE SO HONORED RICHARD LEIDER IS WITH US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

CAN YOU BELIEVE IT?

40 YEARS?

OUR BOOK'S BEEN OUT 40 YEARS.

>> Cathy: AND YOU COULD HAVE RESTED ON YOUR LAURELS, BUT YOU DID NOT.

>> THE PUBLISHERS SAID THE THIRD EDITION IS SOLD OUT.

DO YOU HAVE A FOURTH EDITION?

AND I SAID I DO, AND I WANT TO BRING IN MY COAUTHOR OF OTHER BOOKS, DAVID SHAPIRO.

SO WE HAVE 50% NEW CONTENT.

10,000 FEWER WORDS.

WHICH IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE.

TO LET GO LIKE THAT.

AND A NEW SUBTITLE "IMROARCHGROD GIVE OR LIFE," WHICH IS REALLY THE UNIVERSAL LIFE PURPOSE STATEMENT.

>> Eric: WHY IS THAT YOUR CORE PRINCIPLE?

>> AS WE AGE WE NEED TO CONTINUE TO BE CURIOUS AND TO GROW AND TO GIVE.

AND GIVING IS PART OF WHO WE ARE AS HUMAN BEINGS.

AND SO WE HAVE TO GROW IN ORDER TO HAVE SOMETHING TO GIVE.

AND SO THE NEW EXERCISES IN THE BOOK TALK ABOUT HOW TO GROW, AND PARTICULAR THE ONE THAT I LOVE IS THE CHAPTER WHICH HAS CALLING CARDS IN IT.

AND IT HELPS YOU TO DISCERN YOUR GIFTS.

AT ANY AGE OR STAGE, SO MANY PEOPLE TODAY, SECOND HALF OF LIFE, THEY'RE LIVING 30 YEARS LONGER, THEY'RE STILL WORKING, THEY'RE NOT RETIRING, SOME ARE RETIRING, ET CETERA.

BUT GIFTS ARE SOMETHING THAT REALLY GIVE US FULFILLMENT.

>> Cathy: AND YOU CAN FIND PURPOSE, AS YOU SAY, AT ANY STAGE OF LIFE, EVEN WHEN YOU'RE INTO YOUR 90s.

>> TRUE, YEAH.

>> Cathy: I'M WONDERING, YOU KNOW, THIS BOOK HAS BEEN AROUND FOR 40 YEARS.

WHY DO YOU THINK IT RESONATES?

BECAUSE THIS IS THE SEMINAL BOOK IN THIS AREA.

OF SELF-ACTUALIZATION.

WHY DO YOU THINK IT RESONATES?

>> I THINK BECAUSE IT'S SIMPLE.

IT HAS PRACTICES THAT WE CAN DO.

AND IT'S WHO WE ARE AS HUMAN BEINGS.

THE ORIGIN OF THE BOOK ACTUALLY STARTED BEFORE IT CAME OUT AS A BOOK.

I STUDIED WITH VICTOR FRANKEL WHO WROTE THE BOOK "MAN'S SEARCH FOR MEANING."

AND IT WAS LIFE CHALLENGING.

WE'VE ALL HAD PEOPLE IN OUR LIVES WHO WE CROSSED PATHS WITH AND IT CHANGES OUR LIVES.

HE CHANGED MINE FOREVER.

AND "MAN'S SEARCH FOR MEANING" CAME OUT AFTER HE WAS IN THE CONCENTRATION CAMP FOR THREE YEARS.

AND "PURPOSE" WAS SEMINAL TO WHAT HE LEARNED.

I MEAN, HE HAD ALREADY WRITTEN ABOUT THIS, BUT WHEN HE WAS IN THE CAMP HIMSELF DOING -- SURVIVING, HE COULD GET UP IN THE MORNING AND GIVE SOMEBODY ELSE A CRUST OF BREAD, A KIND WORD, A SLURP OF SUPPORT, HOPE, AND EMBRACED HOPE.

AND SO GROWING AND GIVING IS ABOUT EMBRACING HOPE AS HUMAN BEINGS REGARDLESS OF THE SITUATIONS WE'RE IN.

>> Eric: WHAT'S MIND OVER MATTRESS?

[ Laughter ] >> YOU GET UP IN THE MORNING, ERIC, AND YOU DO THREE STEPS.

NUMBER ONE IS AUSE.

NO CELL PHONE.

SECONDLY, TAKE THREE DEEP BREATHS TO GROUND YOURSELF.

AND THIRD, HAVE THE INTENTION OF, WHAT AM I GOING TO TODAY TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN ONE OTHER PERSON'S LIFE.

THERE ARE 1440 PURPOSE MOMENTS IN A DAY.

YOU CAN FIND AT LEAST ONE OF THOSE MOMENTS TO REACH OUT AND GIVE SOMEBODY ELSE HOPE.

OR A KIND WORD.

OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

AND SO MIND OVER MATTRESS IS THAT.

>> Eric: THERE ARE SO MANY DIVISIONS IN THE COUNTRY RIGHT NOW.

AND THERE'S AN EPIDEMIC OF LONELINESS WE'RE TOLD.

AND PEOPLE AREN'T WORKING AT THEIR JOB ANYMORE.

THEY'RE HOME.

THE ATMOSPHERE CHANGE A LITTLE BIT FOR YOUR PRESCRIPTIONS?

>> NOT REALLY.

BUT ISOLATION IS FATAL.

WE KNOW THAT.

AND IT'S FATAL FOR OLDER PEOPLE.

IT'S FATAL FOR YOUNGER PEOPLE.

AND SO DON'T GO IT ALONE.

BUT IT DOESN'T MEAN JUST PUT ON A HAPPY FACE.

PEOPLE DO BETTER WHEN THEY GIVE TO THERS.

EVEN PEOPLE WHO ARE DEPRESSED OR FEELING CERTAIN PAINS IN THEIR LIFE.

WHEN THEY GIVE TO SOMEBODY ELSE, THEY DO BETTER AND THEY FEEL BETTER.

AND O I'VE BEEN INTERVIEWING PEOPLE ON YOUR OPENING QUESTION, ASKING THEM IF THEY COULD LIVE THEIR LIFE OVER AGAIN, AND THERE'S THREE THINGS THAT HAVE COME OUT THROUGHOUT THE 40 YEARS.

NUMBER ONE, THEY'D BE MORE REFLECTIVE THE SECOND TIME AROUND AND USUALLY THEY WOULD BE REFLECTIVE WHEN THERE WAS A CRISIS, PHYSICAL, EMOTIONAL, FINANCIAL.

SECONDLY, THEY'D TAKE MORE RISKS.

PARTICULARLY IN THE AREA OF RELATIONSHIPS AND WORK.

THOSE ARE THE TWO BIGGIES.

WORK AND RELATIONSHIPS.

BUT THE THIRD THING IS THEY WANT THEIR LIFE TO MATTER.

MATTERING MATTERS.

OF THE -- 'LL SAY THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE OR HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE I'VE HAD THE PRIVILEGE OF INTERVIEWING, EVERY SINGLE ONE WANTS THEIR LIFE TO MATTER.

THEY WANT TO LEAVE THEIR DENT, AND THEIR -- DO THEIR PART.

>> Cathy: YOU JUST TURNED 80.

CONGRATULATIONS.

[ Laughter ] HAS YOUR PERSPECTIVE CHANGED?

AS YOU HIT INTO THIS CHAPTER OF YOUR -- HE NEXT CHAPTER OF YOUR LIFE?

>> NOT A WHOLE LOT IN TERMS OF PURPOSE.

I STILL BELIEVE IN THE CORE MESSAGE OF "THE POWER OF PURPOSE."

AND WHAT IT CAN DO FOR -- AND HERE'S WHY.

PURPOSE IS FUNDAMENTAL TO HEALTH, TO HEALING, TO HAPPINESS, AND ULTIMATELY TO EVEN TO LONGEVITY.

AND SO I -- AND AS I LOOK AN AGING POPULATION, MORE AND MORE PEOPLE ARE WANTING TO DO PURPOSEFUL THINGS WITH THEIR LIFE ALL THE WAY TO THE END.

END IN MIND.

>> Cathy: YES, EXACTLY, HE END IN MIND PROJECT.

"THE POWER OF PURPOSE," FOURTH EDITION COMES OUT NEXT MONTH.

>> Eric: GREAT HOLIDAY GIFT.

>> Cathy: 40 YEARS BETWEEN THE TWO OF US HERE.

IT'S FANTASTIC.

>> ERIC: FOR 30 YEARS, MANY OF THE MOST MEMORABLE IMAGES IN MINNESOTA POLITICS CAME FROM THE "STAR TRIBUNE'S" AWARD-WINNING PHOTOGRAPHER.

GLEN STUBBE IS NOW OFFICIALLY RETIRED.

MARY LAHAMMER BRINGS US THE STORY BEHIND SOME FAVORITE PHOTOS.

>> Mary: IS THERE A BETTER LOCATION TO SHOOT THAN THE MINNESOTA STATE CAPITOL?

>> THERE IS JUST SOMETHING MAGICAL ABOUT THIS BUILDING.

WHEN I PHOTOGRAPH HERE, I LOOK AROUND, AND I THANK CASS GILBERT.

THIS BUILDING IS A FEAST THAT WILL NEVER END BECAUSE IT'S JUST BEAUTIFUL.

I HAD PUT A FISH EYE LENS DOWN THERE AND I SAW IT AND IT JUST MADE MY HEART HAPPY BECAUSE WATCHING THOSE KIDS COME IN, I JUST LOVE IT.

>> Mary: LET'S ALSO TALK ABOUT THE DARK AND WHAT HAPPENS TO THIS BUILDING AT NIGHT.

>> YES, I HAD WATCHED THE QUADRIGA BE REMODELED AND PIECED OF IT COME OFF AND GO OCTOBER I HAD WATCHED THE ELECT LO HEAR COME OWN AND BE CLEANED.

>> Mary: STATE SENATOR, CONGRESSWOMAN, AND THEN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE MICHELLE BACHMANN REALLY CAME ONTO THE SCENE.

VISUALS.EALLY UNDERSTOOD- THE FOCUS IS DELIBERATELY ON HER HAND AND ON HER JEWELRY.

AND JUST TAKE A LOOK AT THOSE 2345EU8S.

>> Mary: NEXT IMAGE, THE SHOVEL.

THIS HAS NOT DISAPPEARED ROM OUR SOCIAL MEDIA FEEDS.

DID YOU KNOW WHAT YOU HAD AT THE TIME?

>> WHEN I SAW THE PICTURE, I WAS JUST LIKE STUNNED.

IT'S ALMOST LIKE, CAN I USE THAT?

SHOULD I USE THAT?

SHOWED MY EDITORS AND THEY SAID, YES.

I HEARD LATER FROM STAFF MEMBERS THAT THEY HAD MEETING AFTER MEETING TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT DOESN'T EVER HAPPEN AGAIN.

I HAD A REALLY GOOD WORKING RELATIONSHIP WITH GOVERNOR DAYTON.

HIS STAFF WERE SO GRACIOUS WITH ME AND FOR EARS EVERY TIME HE SAW ME, HE WAS LIKE, OH, I SHOULD GET MY SHOVEL AND HARD HAT.

STUBBE'S HERE.

>> Mary: STATE OF THE STATE, IT COULDN'T HAVE BEEN MORE PUBLIC, AND IT COULDN'T HAVE BEEN MORE SCARY WHEN HE WENT DOWN.

>> I WAS SO SCARED FOR HIM.

YOU INSTANTLY TAKE HE PICTURES.

OUR TRAINING MEANS -- AS I WAS GOING THROUGH THOSE PICTURES AFTERWARDS.

I THOUGHT, I DON'T KNOW IF HE'S DEAD OR ALIVE.

IT JUST GOT REALLY SILENT AND EARLY SILENT.

AND I QUICK TURNED AROUND, LOOKED UP, PUSHED THE BUTTON.

GOES BLESS AUTO FOCUS.

>> Mary: THE MOST.

MOST DOMINANT FIGURE, DONALD TRUMP, HOW YOU GET A UNIQUE IMAGE.

>> HE HAD BEEN ELECTED PRESIDENT AND HE'D CAME TO DULUTH.

SO I HOTOGRAPHED HIM A COUPLE TIMES.

BUT THERE WAS JUST SOMETHING ABOUT HIM STANDING THERE TO THE ADORATION OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE IN THAT ARENA.

AND CHEERING, A LOT OF PEOPLE WHEN I POSTED ON TWITTER THOUGHT IT HAD BEEN FAKED IN SOME WAY.

THIS IS WHERE HAVING FRIENDS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE SPECTRUM WOULD HELP.

OTHER PEOPLE WOULD JUMP IN AND MONITOR THEM AND PULL THEM IN AND SAID, THIS IS STUBBE.

HE'S A GOOD GUY.

>> Mary: YET ANOTHER PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN FOR MINNESOTA AND HERE OUR WEATHER DELIVERED.

>> AMY KLOBUCHAR IN HER SNOW GLOBE.

THAT WAS ANOTHER MAGICAL DAY.

THE FACT THAT MY CAMERAS KEPT WORKING WAS A MIRACLE.

AND SHE JUST LIVED THE MINNESOTA DREAM AND LET THE SNOW FALL.

AND ALSO BECAUSE I HAVE A GOOD RELATIONSHIP WITH HER STAFF, I THINK I WAS THE ONLY PHOTOGRAPHER WHO WAS BEHIND HER.

EVERYBODY ELSE WAS IN THE FRONT.

>> Mary: SO HOW MUCH DOES IT MATTER TO HAVE THOSE RELATIONSHIPS AND TRY AND GET THE DIFFERENT SHOTS?

>> ACCESS FOR A POLITICAL PARAGRAPHER IS EVERYTHING.

PEOPLE TRUSTING ME TO BE IN A PLACE WHERE THEY MIGHT BE VULNERABLE MEANS EVERYTHING TO ME.

AND IF I CAN DELIVER, THEN I WALK AWAY HAPPY.

>> Mary: THIS ONE IS PROBABLY THE MOST EMOTIONAL PRESS ONFERENCE I THINK I'VE EVER WITNESSED HERE IN DECADES.

>> SENATOR THOMAS YOAN, WHAT A GREAT GUY.

>> Mary: AND THAT MOMENT, THAT TEAR AND THE SON.

I MEAN, IT WAS THE MOMENT, WASN'T IT?

>> YEAH, PHOTOGRAPHERS NEVER GOT DAYS OFF FROM THE PANDEMIC.

TO ME, THIS IS WAS IMPORTANT BECAUSE IT WAS THE FIRST STATE OF THE STATE SPEECH IN A HOUSE CHAMBER ITH PEOPLE.

I WANTED TO DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

I NEEDED TO SHOW THOSE PEOPLE.

YOU CAN PHOTOGRAPH THE GOVERNOR SPEAKING AND IT WOULD BE A PERFECTLY RESPECTABLE PICTURE, BUT THE NEWS TO ME WAS HEY, EVERYBODY'S BACK.

I TRIGGERED IT REMOTELY FROM THE BACK OF THE ROOM.

>> Mary: THIS ONE IS ONE OF MY ALL-TIME FAVORITES BECAUSE WE KNOW THE BEGINNING AND THE END OF THIS STORY.

WE WERE THERE FOR THE WHOLE ARC.

WHAT DOES THAT PHOTO SAY TO YOU?

>> IT MEANT A LOT TO ME BECAUSE I HAD PHOTOGRAPHED JESSE VENTURA BEFORE.

AND HIS WIFE WAS SO PRIVATE AND DIDN'T LIKE TO TALK A LOT BUT WE HAD TOLD THE STORY A COUPLE TIMES THAT CANNABIS HELPED TERRY'S SEIZURES SO TO SEE THE CANNABIS BILL PASS, TERRY WAS WAY OFF THE SIDE AND HE JUST WALKED OVER BY HER.

I WAS THINKING ABOUT RETIREMENT LIKE SIX MONTHS AND I THOUGHT I'LL HAVE THIS NICE COAST, AND THEN TIM WALZ BECAME, LIKE, THIS INSTANT CELEBRITY, YOU KNOW, COACH WALZ.

I KNOW HE LOVES TO TOUCH PEOPLE AND I KNOW WHEN HE COMES OUT, HE MIGHT MIX IT UP WITH PEOPLE A LITTLE BIT.

>> Mary: NOW THE TIME TO LEAVE?

>> I'VE GOT MY HEALTH.

MY WIFE HAS HER HEALTH.

WE WANT TO TRAVEL.

>> Mary: PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF MEDIA SAY POLITICS IS BORING.

[ Laughter ] POLITICS IS SO FAR FROM BORING.

BUT HOW DO YOU REPRESENT THAT IN STILL IMAGES EVERY DAY?

>> TO ME, BEING ABLE TO FREEZE THAT MOMENT IN TIME, TO LET PEOPLE LOOK AT IT IS JUST SUCH A COOL SUPERPOWER.

♪ >> ERIC: PRESIDENT-ELECT TRUMP'S INAUGURATION IS QUICKLY APPROACHING.

THE TRANSITION TEAM HAS BEEN WORKING SWIFTLY AND CREATING SOME CONTROVERSY.

QUICK ACTION AND CONTROVERSY ALSO CONNECTED TO DEMOCRATS IN CONGRESS AND THE WHITE HOUSE AS DO MUCH AS THEY CAN BEFORE YEAR'S END.

PLENTY TO TALK ABOUT WITH OUR PANEL OF POLITICAL SCIENTISTS.

PROFESSOR MICHAEL MINTA TEACHES AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA TWIN CITIES CAMPUS, WHICH IS ALSO WHERE YOU CAN FIND PROFESSOR KATHRYN PEARSON.

A FEW HOURS UP I-35, PROFESSOR CINDY RUGELEY HEADS THE POLITICAL SCIENCE PROGRAM AT THE U OF M'S DULUTH CAMPUS.

GOOD TO SEE YOU ALL.

PEGGY NOON EVERYONE, PROFESSOR R MnDOT IS SAYING IN THE COLUMN THIS WEEK, DONALD TRUMP ESSENTIALLY IS FUNCTIONING AS THE SITTING PRESIDENT.

IS THAT FAIR?

>> FOR THE MOST PART, I MEAN, CONGRESS, I MEAN, YOU GOT A LAME DUCK.

IT'S A TRANSITION.

THERE'S A LOT OF DEFERENCE TO THE DISPISES EXISTING PRESIDENTS TO THE INCOMING PRESIDENT.

HIS APPOINTMENTS AND ALL THE ACTION -- ACTIVITY ON CAPITOL HILL WHERE THE NOMINEES ARE GOING AROUND.

I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY HE'S NOT THE PRESIDENT YET.

BECAUSE WE HEAR, YOU KNOW, BIDEN IS GIVING ALL THESE PARDONS AND ALL THE THINGS THAT ARE GOING OUT.

BUT FOR THE MOST PART, HE IS SETTING THE DIRECTIONS, WORLD LEADERS ARE LOOKING TO THE PRESIDENT-ELECT FOR THE LEADERSHIP.

>> Eric: THIS IS MORE AN UNUSUAL TRANSITION PERIOD.

GETS NOMINEES AND SO FORTH?

>> RIGHT, AND I MEAN, THERE'S AN OFFICIAL TRANSITION.

HE AIN'T EVEN GONE TO WASHINGTON YET.

HE'S STILL OPERATING OUT OF MAR- A-LAGO.

IT IS DIFFERENT.

MOST OF THE TIME, YOU KNOW, IN A NORMAL TRANSITION, THEY WOULD BE MORE SIT BACK THAN THAT.

>> AND IT'D ALSO DIFFERENT THAN IT WAS EIGHT YEARS AGO, WHEN CLEARLY IN THE 2016 ELECTION, I MEAN, THE TRUMP TEAM SAID, THEY DIDN'T EXPECT TO WIN IN 2016.

AND THAT TRANSITION WAS EXTRAORDINARILY SLOW, AND ROCKY.

AND SO IT'S A REAL DIFFERENCE THAN WE SAW EIGHT YEARS AGO.

>> Cathy: SAY, WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE NOMINEES AT THIS POINT?

IT SEEMS THAT MINNESOTA NATIVE PETE HEGSETH HAS REPAIRED SOME OF THIS INITIAL DAMAGE.

AND HE LOOKS LIKE THE GLIDE PATH IS A LITTLE SMOOTHER TO CONFIRMATION THAN IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN.

MAYBE I'M WRONG ABOUT THAT.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> I THINK IT'S LOOKING MORE SMOOTH THAN IT DID A COUPLE WEEKS AGO, BUT I THINK IT'S STILL AN OPEN QUESTION.

YOU KNOW, WITH 53 REPUBLICAN SENATORS THEY AN AFFORD TO LOSE THREE AND THEN HAVE VANCE BREAK A TIE VOTE.

BUT IF IT'S 50-50, ERNST IS FROM IOWA, SEEMING A LITTLE BIT WARMER, BUT SHE HERSELF HAS TALKED ABOUT HER OWN SEXUAL ASSAULT, AND SO I THINK SHE'S NERVOUS ABOUT THOSE ALLEGATIONS.

AND THEN THERE'S THE DRINKING ALLEGATIONS.

>> Cathy: HOW MANY NO, MA'AM NEILS NORMALLY DOES AN INCOMING GET THROUGH CONGRESS.

ALL OF THEM?

DO WE KNOW?

>> DEPENDS ON HOW CONTROVERSIAL THEY ARE, RIGHT?

YEAH, I MEAN, THERE'S USUALLY DEFERENCE TO THE PRESIDENT.

AND I THINK TRUMP, PEOPLE USING THIS WORD OF SHOCK AND AWE, RIGHT?

HE'S PUTTING THE MOST FAR TO THE RIGHT CANDIDATES AND EVEN WITH SOME OF THESE PERSONAL FAILINGS THAT WOULD NEVER BE NOMINATED OR BE PUT BEFORE THE PARTY AND ASK THEM TO TAKE A VOTE ON THEM, IT'S VERY INTERESTING EVEN WITH MATT GAETZ HOW LONG THE PRESIDENT KIND OF STUCK WITH HIM BEFORE THE PARTY REALLY BASICALLY FORCED HIM LIKE, IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT YOU AND TRYING TO POLICE M.A.G.A., BUT IT'S ALSO ABOUT THE PARTY AND THE MIDTERMS IN TWO YEARS.

SO EAH, TRUMP IS EALLY PUSHING THE ENVELOPE ON MANY OF THESE NOMINEES.

SO WE'LL SEE WHAT REPUBLICANS DO.

I DON'T THINK MURKOWSKI AND I THINK SUSAN COLLINS WITH HEGSETH, THAT'S GOING TO BE VERY DIFFICULT TO GET THEM TO COME ALONG.

>> Eric: THE PARDONS, PROFESSOR RUGELEY, HUNTER BIDEN WAS VERY CONTROVERSIAL.

WHERE'S IT GOING TO END?

>> I DON'T KNOW.

AND I MEAN, I'VE NOTICED THAT A THE LO OF THEM, PARTICULARLY THOSE THAT ARE IN D.O.J.

ARE SAYING WE WON'T ACCEPT IT.

WE HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING WRONG AND WE WON'T ACCEPT IT.

I EAN, BIDEN PARDONED A COUPLE OF STINKERS, I THINK PEOPLE WOULD SAY VER THE LAST COUPLE, YOU KNOW, THE KIDS FOR SALE JUDGE OR WHATEVER IT WAS.

AN EMBEZZLER OF A HUGE AMOUNT OF MONEY.

SO HE'S HAD A FEW STINKERS IN THERE AND THERE USUALLY ARE.

THERE HAS BEEN IN RECENT ELECTIONS.

BUT, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE ASKING HIM TO DO BLANKET PARDONS AND I THINK -- I THINK IT'LL BE INTERESTING, AND THEY'RE DOING IT BECAUSE OF THE COMMENTS THAT THE THREATS THAT TRUMP MADE DURING THE CAMPAIGN OF INVESTIGATING SO MANY OF THEM.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, WITH KASH PATEL, WHO KNOWS WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.

>> Eric: F.B.I.

>> RIGHT.

>> Eric: LOOKING AHEAD TO THE 2025 SESSION, WHEN DOES THE BUDGET AND THE EBT CEILING STUFF COME UP IN THE STRING?

>> IGHT, SO IT COMES UP PRETTY EARLY ON AND OF COURSE THIS IS ALWAYS A PROBLEM FOR REPUBLICAN LEADERS IN THE HOUSE, FOR REPUBLICAN SPEAKERS BECAUSE THERE ARE REPUBLICAN MEMBERS WHO, YOU KNOW, DON'T WANT TO GO ALONG WITH INCREASING ANY SPENDING AND RAISING THE DEBT LIMIT.

ALTHOUGH WITH A REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT, THEY'RE MORE LIKELY TO DO THAT.

BUT THE FREEDOM CAUCUS, YOU KNOW, HAS BEEN A REAL THORN IN THE SIDE OF REPUBLICAN SPEAKERS AND AT THIS POINT IT SEEMS AS THOUGH REPUBLICANS WILL HAVE ABOUT A TWO-VOTE MARGIN.

SO THAT'S EVEN NARROWER THAN THE LAST CONGRESS AND WE AW, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY WE WENT THROUGH TWO DIFFERENT SPEAKERS IN THE LAST CONGRESS.

>> Eric: IS GRIDLOCK LIKELY?

>> YES.

[ Laughter ] >> Cathy: SHORT ANSWER.

>> YES.

>> I DON'T KNOW.

YOU KNOW, IT'S EASIER WHEN YOU'RE -- THERE'S DIVIDED GOVERNMENT AND YOU CAN KIND OF PLAY THESE GAMES ABOUT HOLDING UP FUNDING.

BUT NOW THAT YOU'RE IN THE MAJORITY, YOU CAN'T BLAME DEMOCRATS IF YOU DON'T -- IF YOU CAN'T FUND GOVERNMENT OR GET POLICY PROPOSALS THROUGH.

SO I THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE VERY DIFFICULT TO PLAY THAT GAME.

BUT THEN AGAIN, THEY'RE WILD CARDS, RIGHT?

>> WELL, RIGHT.

AND THE OTHER IMPERATIVE IS REPUBLICANS ARE MUCH MORE PREPARED AS I SAID EARLIER THAN THEY WERE EIGHT YEARS AGO, EVEN THOUGH THEIR MAJORITY IS SMALLER, AND THEY ALSO KNOW THEY ONLY HAVE TWO YEARS.

BECAUSE MIDTERM ELECTIONS ALWAYS BENEFIT THE PARTY THAT'S OUT OF POWER.

AND SOMETHING VERY UNUSUAL WOULD HAVE TO HAPPEN FOR DEMOCRATS NOT TO TAKE THE HOUSE BACK.

>> Cathy: BECAUSE MIDTERMS ARE NOT RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER, BUT THEY'RE COMING UP HERE, WOULD THE GOAL OF THE PRESIDENT TO GET AS MUCH DONE AS POSSIBLE IN THIS TIME PERIOD?

PROFEPROFESSOR RUGELEY?

>> YEAH, I MEAN, GENERALLY THEY TALK ABOUT THE 100 DAYS.

AND ONE OF THE DIFFICULT THINGS AND WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THIS BEFORE COMING IN IS WE ALL LOOK AT THINGS -- IN NORMAL TERMS, WHAT WOULD USUALLY HAPPEN.

AND NOTHING'S NORMAL RIGHT NOW.

I MEAN, THE APPOINTMENTS ARE NOT NORMAL.

YOU ASK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HOW MANY THEY USUALLY GET THROUGH.

USUALLY IF THEY'RE NOT GOING TO GET THROUGH, THEY RESIGN.

YOU'RE NOT SEEING THAT THIS TIME.

AND SO, YEAH, AND I MEAN, A LOTS OF WHAT HE WANTS TO DO, HE WANTS 20 DO THROUGH EXECUTIVE ORDER.

AND SO I THINK THE FIRST DAY USER GOING TO SEE HIM FOLLOW THROUGH WITH A LOT OF THINGS.

THE TAX CUTS THAT'S A BIG ISSUE OF HIS.

I THINK HE'LL TRY TO PUSH THOSE THROUGH REALLY QUICKLY.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN WITH THE CUTTING BUDGET THINGS FROM, YOU KNOW, THAT ELON MUSK IS INVOLVED.

IT'S GOING TO TAKE CONGRESSIONAL ACTION.

>> RIGHT, I MEAN GHT RIE NOW, CURRENTLY CONGRESSIONAL LEADERS ARE ARGUING ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT TO HAVE ONE OR TWO RECONCILIATION BILL AND THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THAT IS IT'S ONE OF THE ONLY MEASURES IN THE SENATE THAT REQUIRES 51 VOTES.

AND TRADITIONAL YOU'RE ONLY SUPPOSED TO HAVE ONE AT THE END OF THE BUDGET PROCESS BUT ONCE AGAIN THESE ARE NOT NORMAL TIMES.

>> Cathy: INTERESTING THAT GOVERNOR WALZ IS NOW TALKING TO MINNESOTA MEDIA AND WAS BEING ASKED ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED AND, YOU KNOW, WHETHER HE IS INTERESTED IN MAINTAINING A NATIONAL PROFILE.

AND I'M URIOUS, HOW DOES THE GOVERNOR -- WHAT DOES THE GOVERNOR NEED TO DO IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN A NATIONAL PROFILE?

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S -- YEAH, I HEARD THAT INTERVIEW TODAY AND HE SAID HE WANTS TO TRY TO ECORRECT THE MESSAGING OF THE MIDDLE CLASS AND HOW DEMOCRATS HAVE LOST MANY OF THAT -- THE BIG LOSSES IN, LIKE, PENNSYLVANIA.

AND SO THEY WANT TO TRY TO BRING MORE OF THAT BACK IN WISCONSIN.

I THINK HE WILL REMAIN ACTIVE ON THE NATIONAL STAGE.

I THINK HE WILL TRY TO PASS -- IT'S GOING TO BE TOUGH HERE TO TRY TO ASS SOME OF THESE INITIATIVES IN MINNESOTA.

AND USE THEM AS A MODEL.

BUT I THINK HE WILL STAY ACTIVE.

I THINK HE'LL BE INVOLVED.

HE WON'T SAY THIS IN THE D.N.C.

NEW CHAIR, HE WON'T SAY IT YOU BELIEVELY, BUT I THINK HE'LL BE VERY INVOLVED TO MAKE SURE THAT THE PERSON FROM MINNESOTA -- KEN MARTIN, YEAH.

>> Eric: BUT THAT MEANS HE'S NOT WANTING TO OFFEND ANYBODY.

>> YEAH, HE'S GOING TO PULL FOR THE MINNESOTA UY, YOU KNOW THAT.

>> Eric: MAYBE BEHIND THE SCENES.

>> YEAH.

>> OF COURSE HE SHOWED THAT THAT HE COULD BE VERY EFFECTIVE WITH A TRIFECTA, AND THEN HE GOT SO MUCH NATIONAL ATTENTION.

SO NOW I THINK ALL EYES WILL BE ON HIM.

CAN HE BE EFFECTIVE WITHOUT THAT TRIFECTA WITH THIS TIE IN THE HOUSE.

>> Eric: WHAT'S THE FIRST TAKE ON BIDEN'S LEGACY?

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S GOING TO STRUGGLE LABOR.

I WON'T BE SURPRISED TO SEE IT A LOT LIKE GEORGE W. BUSH'S, WHERE WHEN HE MS. OUT, IT'S NOT GREAT.

BUT AS TIME GOES ON, HE STARTS PICKING UP A BETTER REPUTATION, BETTER VIEWS.

HE ACCOMPLISHED A LOT.

I MEAN, THE INFRASTRUCTURE BILL IS A GOOD BILL.

AND IT'S GOING TO CHANGE A LOT.

YOU KNOW, IT'S GOING TO REATE JOBS AND IT'S GOING TO PROVIDE SERVICES WHERE THEY DON'T ALWAYS HAVE THEM.

SO I MEAN, HE DID ACCOMPLISH A LOT.

YOU KNOW, HE'S -- PART OF THE, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN SAY ALL KINDS OF REASONS FOR THE ELECTION, BUT HIS POPULARITY WAS PART OF IT.

>> Eric: DO WE KNOW IF THIS WAS A REALIGNMENT ELECTION?

>> THIS WAS NOT.

VOTERS VOTED BASED ON THE ECONOMY AND THE FACT THAT THEY DID NOT LIKE JOE BIDEN.

POLITICAL SCIENCE MODELS SHOW THAT IF THE INCUMBENT PRESIDENT, EVEN THOUGH HE WASN'T OOT BALLOT, IF THEIR APPROVAL RATING IS BELOW 50%, IT REALLY SPELLS TROUBLE FOR THE PARTY.

BIDEN'S WAS AT 38% AND PEOPLE WERE MORE CONCERNED ABOUT THE ECONOMY.

>> Cathy: THANK YOU SO MUCH.

WELL, OBVIOUSLY, WE'VE RUN A LITTLE LONG TONIGHT.

SO WE'RE GOING TO HAVE OUR HISTORY SECTION FOR YOU NEXT TIME OR HISTORY QUESTION.

COUPLE OF NOTES BEFORE WE GO.

DON'T FORGET TO TUNE IN TO "REMEMBER THE MAGIC" NEXT TUESDAY NIGHT AT 7:00 P.M. ON TWIN CITIES PBS OR YOU CAN STREAM IT ON THE PBS APP.

WE HAVE ONE MORE HOLIDAY HARMONY FOR YOU FROM THE STEELES.

WE LOVE THEM SO MUCH.

YOU CAN CATCH THEIR CHRISTMAS CONCERT AT THE PANTAGES THEATER NEXT WEEKEND.

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THANKS FOR LISTENING.

TAKE IT AWAY.

HERE'S THE STEELES.

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