>> Cathy: I LOVE SOUL.

WELL, WORK ONTINUES ON THE MINNEAPOLIS POLICE DEPARTMENT'S COURT-ORDERED REFORMS.

THIS WEEK THE INDEPENDENT GROUP OVERSEEING THAT WORK HELD TWO COMMUNITY LISTENING SESSIONS.

BUT WITH THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION PREPARING TO MOVE BACK INTO THE WHITE HOUSE, SOME OBSERVERS THINK THE FEDERAL CONSENT DECREE MAY FALL BY THE WAYSIDE, LEAVING JUST THE STATE CONSENT DECREE IN PLACE.

YOHURU WILLIAMS IS BACK.

HE'S A UNIVERSITY OF ST. THOMAS HISTORIAN, DIRECTOR OF THE SCHOOL'S RACIAL JUSTICE INITIATIVE, AND ONE OF HIS AREAS OF EXPERTISE IS THE HISTORY OF POLICING IN THE TWIN CITIES.

A LOT TO TALK ABOUT HERE.

SO THIS INDEPENDENT MONITOR FOR FOLKS WHO DON'T QUITE REMEMBER, BECAUSE IT'S JUST KIND OF LIKE BEEN A BOUNCING BALL HERE, THE INDEPENDENT MONITOR, HOW IMPORTANT IS THAT ROLE AND HOW DID IT ALL PLAY INTO THESE COMMUNITY MEETINGS?

>> THAT ROLE S EXCEPTIONALLY IMPORTANT BECAUSE THEY'LL ACTUALLY MONITOR THE PROGRESS ON THE CONSENT DECREE.

THEY'RE THE INDEPENDENT EVALUATOR TO DETERMINE IF THE DEPARTMENT IS ACTUALLY MAKING PROGRESS.

AND THESE LISTENING SESSIONS ARE KIND OF BAKED INTO THE ENTERPRISE BECAUSE ESSENTIALLY WHAT THE INDEPENDENT EVALUATOR WAS SAYING IS THAT WE'RE GOING TO CHECK IN WITH THE COMMUNITY REGULARLY, ABOUT EVERY FOUR MONTHS, AND JUST GIVE YOU AN UPDATE ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING.

LAST NIGHT WAS LESS ABOUT LISTENING TO COMMUNITY AND MORE JUST ABOUT GOING OVER THE PARAMETERS OF THE CONSENT DECREE, INTRODUCING THE COMMUNITY AGAIN TO THE TEAM, AND THEN TALKING ABOUT HOW TO GEAR UP FOR THE WORK, BEGINNING IN JANUARY.

>> Eric: THE ISSUES INCLUDE RACISM AND KIND OF HEAVY-HANDED POLICING VER MANY GENERATIONS IN MINNEAPOLIS, FOR THAT MATTER.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> Eric: IF THE FEDERAL DECREE GOES AWAY UNDER THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, THERE WOULD STILL BE A STATE DECREE, CORRECT?

>> THERE WILL STILL BE A STATE DECREE, UNDER THE MINNESOTA DEPARTMENT OF HUMAN RIGHTS, AND IT WILL LOOK AT HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS IN MINNESOTA.

WHAT MANY COMMUNITY LEADERS ARE CONCERNED ABOUT, FOR EXAMPLE, COMMUNITIES UNITED AGAINST POLICE BRUTALITY IS THAT YOU LOSE THAT CONSTITUTIONAL POLICING PIECE YOU'D GET WITH THE FEDERAL CONSENT DECREE.

AND THERE'S REAL CONCERN HERE BECAUSE UNDER THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION WE HAD 14 CONSENT DECREASE THAT WERE NEGOTIATED.

DECREES THAT WERE NEGOTIATED.

TRUMP ESSENTIALLY ENDED THAT WORK.

SO CHICAGO, FOR EXAMPLE, WAS SUPPOSED TO GO UNDER CONSENT DECREE, 2019, THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION CAME IN, JEFF SESSIONS WAS THEN ATTORNEY GENERAL, AND HE BASICALLY HALTED THAT WORK.

THE FEAR IN THIS MOMENT IS WITH THE SECOND TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, WILL THE NEW ATTORNEY GENERAL, WILL THE ADMINISTRATION ALLOW THIS TO LAPSE?

AND AT THIS POINT, WE HAVEN'T REACHED THAT FINAL STAGE HERE IN MINNEAPOLIS IN TERMS OF THAT NEGOTIATED AGREEMENT.

>> Cathy: AND, BY THE WAY, THIS IS KIND OF HISTORY QUESTION HERE, TOO, BUT WHY DID THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION UNDER SESSIONS TRUNCATE THE OBAMA WORK?

>> WELL, FROM THE WAY THAT SESSIONS ARTICULATED IT, IT WAS IDEALOGICAL, BUT IT CERTAINLY ALIGNED WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP'S VIEW OF POLICING, THE IDEA WAS THAT IT WAS TOO MUCH OVERSIGHT, WE REALLY NEEDED TO TAKE THE HANDS OFF THE POLICE.

AND IT ECHOED SOME OF THE RHETORIC THAW HEARD DURING THE CAMPAIGN, BOTH IN -- THAT YOU HEARD DURING THE CAMPAIGN, BOTH IN 2018 AND THIS YEAR AROUND SANCTUARY CITIES, VIOLENCE RUN AMOK, AND CHICAGO IS ALMOST TAILOR MADE CENTRAL CASTING FOR THAT BECAUSE THERE WAS THIS WAVE OF VIOLENCE THAT WAS TAKING PLACE IN THE CITY AND TRUMP USED THAT TO SAY, WE DON'T NEED LESS POLICING, WE NEED MORE POLICING, MISSING THE CENTRAL POINT, THIS ISN'T ABOUT LESS POLICING, IT'S ABOUT PUBLIC SAFETY AND THAT'S WHAT REALLY GOT LOST IN THAT CONVERSATION.

AND I HOPE IT DOESN'T GET LOST HERE.

>> Eric: THERE WAS A CASE IN MINNEAPOLIS WHERE A DISGRUNTLED NEIGHBOR SHOT AN AFRICAN AMERICAN EIGHBOR, AND APPARENTLY THE NEIGHBOR HAD BEEN COMPLAINING FOR A LONG TIME ABOUT THIS FELLA NEXT DOOR.

AND HOW OES THAT ADD TO THE MIX HERE?

>> IT DOES IN WAYS THAT I THINK ELEVATE THE WORK.

BECAUSE AT THE SAME TIME ALIFA WAS MEETING ON THURSDAY, I WENT TO THE THURSDAY MEETING, THERE WAS A MEETING UPSTAIRS WHERE MARY MORIARTY WAS MEETING WITH MEMBERS ABOUT JUVENILE JUSTICE AND HER MESSAGE AROUND PUBLIC SAFETY, NOT POLICING.

HER MESSAGE WAS CENTERING AROUND MENTAL HEALTH.

MELVIN CARTER JUST SPOKE TO THE WIDESPREAD ACCESS TO GUNS IN OUR COMMUNITY.

AND THEN YOU HAD THESE TRAGEDIES.

WE HAVE TO OOK AT PUBLIC SAFETY, TO ALLOW THE COMMUNITY TO FEEL MORE SAFE, AROUND JUVENILE JUSTICE, A RANGE OF ISSUES.

>> Cathy: SO THE COMMUNITY IS REALLY UPSET WITH CHIEF O'HARA BECAUSE OF THIS SITUATION.

YOU KNOW, THAT THIS PERSON WAS PRETTY MUCH IGNORED.

HE DOESN'T SEEM LIKE E'S GOING TO GO ANYWHERE.

HOW IN DANGER IS HE AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT OTHER CHIEFS OF POLICE IN MINNEAPOLIS, YOU KNOW, HAVE WE SEEN ANYTHING QUITE LIKE THIS BEFORE?

>> WE HAVE.

AND, YOU KNOW, I'M A LITTLE CONCERNED ABOUT BOTH CHIEF O'HARA AND MARY MORRIETY -- MORIARTY, THE WORK OF REFORM IS DIFFICULT, WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO MESSAGE THE COMMUNITY, THE TIME IT TAKES TO CREATE A CULTURE OF CHANGE, IT'S REALLY HARD.

UNFORTUNATELY, WE HAVE A REALLY SHORT MEMORY AS AMERICANS AND WE LIKE A TRAGEDY WITH A HAPPY ENDING.

SO WE'RE LOOKING FOR INSTANT GRATIFICATION IN TERMS OF THIS WORK, AND IT'S LONG-TERM WORK.

BOTH O'HARA AND MORIARTY ARE INVESTED IN THAT WORK AND WE'RE SEEING THEM MAKE THE CHANGES KNOWS GET US THERE.

WHAT I'M HOPING PEOPLE DON'T DO IS PANIC AND KIND OF PULL BACK AND GO BACK TO THE STATUS QUO.

THAT'S WHAT GOT US IN THIS SITUATION IN THE FIRST PLACE.

>> Eric: ROOM FOR OPTIMISM?

>> I THINK GUARDED PTIMISM, WHAT CONCERNS ME IS HOW FEW PEOPLE ATTENDED THOSE SESSIONS FOR ALIFA.

YOU KNOW, A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THIS MOMENT ARE FEELING ANXIETY ABOUT NATIONAL POLITICS.

ONE WAY YOU CAN INVEST, LOOK AT WHAT WE CAN DO LOCALLY.

WE HAVE A TREMENDOUS OPPORTUNITY IN THIS COMMUNITY TO BE PART OF CULTURAL CHANGE IN TERMS OF OUR POLICING.

THAT'S AN EXAMPLE AND AN OPPORTUNITY FOR PEOPLE TO GET INVOLVED.

I HOPE MORE PEOPLE SHOW UP AND REALLY INVEST IN THIS PROCESS.

>> Cathy: REALLY GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE, PROFESSOR.