(upbeat music) - I think that dreams and ambitions are really aimed at young people.

People are like, what do you wanna be?

What do you wanna do with your lives?

But actually, as Bernard says, "Sometimes people achieve their dreams because of their age and not in spite of it."

And so I think I would love readers to take from the novel that they can do it, whatever that quiet ambition is.

(upbeat music) - Well, hi and welcome to the PBS Books Readers Club.

- Today we'll be joined by author Olivia Ford to discuss her super sweet novel "Mrs. Quinn's Rise To Fame."

- This book is a charming story that follows 77-year-old British home baker Jenny, as she finds herself competing on her favorite primetime baking show.

If you love cooking and baking shows like "The Great American Recipe" on PBS, this is the book for you.

- We'll also reveal our pick for next month's read, so stick around for that.

And fans of "The Great American Recipe" are in for a special treat.

After our conversation with author Olivia Ford, we'll sit down with show host Alejandra Ramos to give a little behind the scenes look at the making of the program.

- So exciting.

- We are definitely excited for that.

Hi Fred Nahhat here with Lauren Smith.

Also joining us, Heather-Marie Montilla, our resident librarian and PBS Books National Director and of course Princess Weeks, the award-winning video.

An author that levels up our book club with that valuable master's degree in literary theater for we are so grateful for.

- Yeah.

- Thank goodness for you.

- Thank you.

Thank you for having me.

- Of course, the most important person in this book club is you.

We want you to share all your thoughts in the comments as we go along today.

And we hope you'll join the PBS Books Readers Club Facebook group to find and share book recommendations.

And please make sure to share this event.

Do that right now.

Friends, do not let friends miss out on great books.

- Well, speaking of friends, welcome back everyone.

What did we think of "Mrs. Quinn's Rise To Fame"?

- I love "Bake Off" shows.

I love any like soft competition.

So everything about it was just so sweet, so charming.

And then the underlying tension really got me the entire time.

I was so anxious.

And I just love her husband.

We love a good man.

- Agreed.

You know, secrets were really woven throughout all of this.

And for me it was, I learned so much and I learned I was thinking a lot about how our country's, our world has always put shame on unwed moms and that grief women feel.

And it really put me in that position what it could be like.

And so that was unexpected for me as I was reading this book.

And it was a shock.

And I loved, I loved the book and it was heartfelt for sure.

- Yeah.

- I have to say I didn't like this book.

(all laughs) I loved it.

Sorry, had to do that reality PBS stop.

- You had me.

- I'm a maniac for this book.

So first of all, old school Jenny against this modern reality show can see so fantastic, Bernard awesome.

And I also say I took a trip to Florida, not a big deal, but this became a beach read for me and I can highly recommend it.

Totally fantastic.

- It was so great and I got a little emotional too, like it's a very sweet read and it's fun to read about the reality show "The Bake Off", but also like her feelings and like her relationship with her husband is just so sweet.

- I know.

- I was kind of crying a little bit by the end.

I thought it was really good.

And just the way that recipes can sort of invoke those memories.

- Memories.

- I have this recipe book that my mom made for all of us.

I'm one of four.

And she made us all like a handwritten recipe book of all of like the classic mom recipes.

I'm so happy to have it because it's awesome, - Of course.

and it has all like the Thanksgiving recipes and this classic family recipes.

It's just like this book, it really brings back those memories, which I love that theme.

- Yeah, for sure.

- Well, plenty to discuss with Olivia Ford.

She'll be joining us in just a moment.

And we want to invite you to join the PBS Books Readers Club too.

There are many ways to connect, including our e-newsletter.

You'll get book recommendations, exclusive author interviews and more Visit pbsbooks.org/subscribe and be sure to follow PBS BoOks on Facebook and Instagram too.

And fill up your feed with great books and great authors.

- And if you find yourself really appreciating this program, which I hope you do, please take a moment to show your support.

PBS Stations rely on donations from folks like you and me.

And if you'd like to see more of the PBS Books Readers Club, here's a great way to help us keep it going.

If you're watching on Facebook or YouTube, just click the link in the comments or visit pbsbooks.org/donate.

You'll be taken to your local PBS stations giving webpage where you can find some PBS Book swag as our thanks for supporting this program.

One of those gifts is an ebook download of "Mrs. Quinn's Rise To Fame" or any of our PBS Books features for your phone, tablet, or e-reader.

After you make your donation, you'll receive an email with a link to a special code to download one of our featured books.

- Or you can get one of our official PBS Books mugs, just $5 a month we'll get you the PBS Books mug, and it makes you a member of your local PBS station giving you access to all the amazing shows and passport, including the extended edition of this interview with Olivia Ford.

- Everyone's been asking for these mugs.

We had to bring 'em to the people.

We have 'em on our set here, but now you can have one too and look at the back.

So cute.

My weekend is booked.

- Booked.

- I love it.

Perfect for cozying up with your next great read.

- So perfect.

So if you want to see more of the PBS Books Readers Club, we gotta hear from you.

Just click the link in the description or visit pbsbooks.org/donate.

Donations support your local PBS station and it will help us keep this book club going for another month.

- Plus, as a PBS member, you'll also enjoy access to PBS passport.

It's the members only section on the PBS app where you can stream full seasons of your favorite PBS shows, including full seasons of "The Great American Recipe."

I just love that show, by the way.

It's the perfect feelgood cooking competition, not unlike the show that Mrs. Quinn finds herself in in our book of the month.

- Our featured author today is Olivia Ford.

Olivia spent a decade in entertainment television working on shows like "Maiden Chelsea" and "Love Island", and of course she's the author of today's feature.

"Mrs. Quinn's Rise To Fame."

Olivia Ford, welcome to the PBS Books Readers Club.

- Thank you so much.

It's such an honor to feature.

- We're so glad to have you here and we can't wait to dive into your book.

Tell us a little bit about your journey and your experience in entertainment television and how that influenced this book.

How it all came to be.

Just tell us everything.

- So as you know, I was a TV producer in entertainment TV for over a decade.

And when lockdown happened, TV kind of stopped.

They weren't sure how to film with the regulations and it all kind of dried up.

And I suddenly was left with space and time, and I decided to do a writing course.

And I did it with Faber Academy, and it's something I'd always wanted to do, a quiet ambition of mine.

And I really, really enjoyed it, learned so much.

And one day I was on a bike ride and the character of Mrs. Quinn genuinely came to me on this bike ride and I knew I had to write the book.

- Well, this book starts with an important question.

Mrs. Quinn, 77 years old, she questions her greatest life's ambition.

Now, we already have heard one of your quiet ambitions, but what is your greatest ambition?

- Completely honestly, my greatest ambition was to write a book.

- You did, yeah.

- Thanks guys.

And honestly, as I was writing the novel, Britain Bakes for Mrs. Quinn was writing a book for me.

So all those feelings I was feeling I could put into sort of Mrs. Quinn.

Now my greatest ambition is to write a second book.

And that's actually even harder.

- One of the best descriptions I've ever heard about a great book is that all the characters are like your new friends and to the exclusion of your old friends and your family, you can't wait to get back to them in the book.

This was this book for me, talk about the characters like Jenny and Bernard and even Poppy.

It's like they come to life for us immediately we know them and we love them.

- I'm so glad you felt like that because Jenny and Bernard were largely inspired by my own grandparents.

I'm super close to them.

They live in our house, so in my parents' house.

So we all lived together.

They looked after me so much as a child.

So I've always felt so close to them.

So much as Jenny and Bernard is like my grandparents, however, they are also their own people.

They aren't a copy of my grandparents.

So I recently heard my favorite author, Joanna Glenn, talking about this.

And as an author, it's like everyone you've ever met and every experience you've ever had jumbles up in your head.

And then you channel little pieces of it that you didn't even know were in there into these people, which is what makes them feel real.

And so I think all these characters are a jumble of thousands of different people that I've met.

But I would say the driving, sort of the driving and inspiration for Jenny and Bernard is my grandparents.

- That's really sweet.

- That's so sweet.

- Yeah.

- I love that.

- All of the flashbacks were really emotional and even though I was so engrossed in the baking, I also wanted to go back and almost take care of tiny Jenny and punch that dude in the face.

(ladies laughing) How did you, when you were outlining the book, know how much of the flashbacks you wanted to include and how did you balance that out with the main timeline of the baking?

- So as you all know, books come over many drafts and the first draft didn't have many flashbacks in, so it was all present day.

And then once spoiler alert, but once she was on "Britain Bakes", then there started being some flashbacks, but sort of more thoughts than flashbacks.

And it was my agent Lucy, who is brilliant, who said, "I think we need here some more flashbacks.

I want to know more about Jenny when she was younger and what happened to her before the big secret."

And so then I went and sort of had a look at the book and it became a jewel timeline.

So it became two stories alongside each other.

So I would say that balancing that out was something that came over time and writing the book was a real journey to get those two timelines correct.

- That's really great.

I'm so glad that you included that 'cause that was one of our favorite parts, those flashbacks.

So I'd love to learn a little bit more about your experience as a TV producer and how that influenced the book outside of her own personal emotional journey.

Jenny Quinn's experience on the baking show seemed pretty pleasant, and I always imagine that a reality competition show would be a little bit more cutthroat.

So how does her experience compare to real life contestants on similar shows?

- Well, they always say write what you know, and I naturally did that.

So I'd spent over a decade in this world.

So it came quite naturally to me to write the behind the scenes.

I will say that I haven't worked on "The Great British Bake Off."

I actually found an email the other day of me asking if there was any jobs when I was a runner.

I was like 21 and I sent about three emails asking for a job and never heard back.

- Well they might be calling now.

(ladies laughing) - Fingers crossed.

So I've never worked on it.

However, I did get in touch with two of the finalists and I interviewed them and spoke to them about their experience on the show.

So I had a real kind of firsthand account of what it felt like to be a contestant.

And that was so, so useful.

But I also picked to sort of be inspired by a show like "Bake Off" because it isn't cutthroat.

I feel that it's a show with so much heart and that's what drew me towards it 'cause I don't think Jenny would want to be on a show that had that cutthroat element to it.

That's just not her.

- No, that's perfect because I love "British Bake Off" and so I know it's not really well known for being a conflict show.

It's more of a comfort show.

So I love that.

But I think when you're translating that into a novel, how did you balance out that tone of that comfort feel as well as creating a dramatic tension throughout the story?

- So I think the dramatic tension comes from the fact that you really care about Jenny.

I think there would be no dramatic tension if I just wrote about a lady that went on "Britain Bakes."

But because you've got that flashback and you really invest in Jenny and her life and her story and I really worked hard on those motivations of what she was lacking in her life and the pain that she carried.

And I think it's that background to her character that creates the dramatic tension almost rather than the show itself.

- Right.

- It's funny that you're talking about care because in your book you write, "To want something is to make yourself vulnerable to losing it."

This theme you weave it into the fabric of your story.

Why was this so important for you to include and what is something in your own life that makes you vulnerable?

- Well, this is something I thought a great deal about because my grandparents obviously were the starting point of the inspiration between the relationship between Jenny and Bernard Quinn.

And I have this fear of one of them losing the other 'cause they've been together 63, well, they've been married 63 years and they've been together even longer.

So the idea of my grandparents without each other really scares me.

So that was the starting point.

So that's a big question in the book and it's something that I kind of learn a lot about through writing it, if that makes sense.

- Yeah.

- Yeah, totally.

- I would say the biggest example of something that I've made myself vulnerable to is I've recently had a baby.

- Congratulations.

- Congratulations.

- Thank you, thank you.

And whilst she is absolutely everything, it is literally like wearing your heart on the outside of your body.

And whenever anything happens to her or she's sad, I feel it so much.

So I think you get this absolutely beautiful human, but then you also get this whole load of worry.

- Yeah, can definitely relate to that.

And your book is so much about food and recipes and the emotions that they can bring.

I know in my family we have the most amazing pumpkin pie recipe.

It's from my great Aunt Peg.

It's in her own handwriting.

She's no longer with us.

And so it's so special to be able to bring it out every Thanksgiving.

Talk to us a little bit about this theme of nostalgia and the memories that come along with recipes and food.

- I'm so glad it made you think of your own family recipes by the way 'cause that's what I really hope readers would do.

And I would love the recipe please.

- This was really good.

- But yeah, so this was another huge inspiration was family recipes.

Not necessarily really complicated ones that you know would be on a baking show, but ones that are really sentimental and we've got lots in our family.

But one of them that springs to mind is my paternal grandmother.

She passed away years ago now, but she passed down this recipe for Grandma Audrey's Chocolate Crispy Cakes.

And they are in the novel.

And the recipe's written in her handwriting and it's kind of scruffy and it's got bloats of butter on it.

But we make it every single Easter.

And we think of her, and it's as if, as I say in the novel, a little piece of her soul lives in those instructions and in that recipe.

And I think a lot of people can relate to how nostalgic recipes can be.

Even if it's a birthday cake maybe you had as a child or some cookies that your grandma made, they often outlive the people who wrote them.

- Yeah, I'm hoping that our viewers are gonna share some of their favorite family recipes.

- So many.

- Please put your recipes in those memories in the comments.

We really wanna see that.

- So many great recipes in the book.

So Olivia getting to know Jenny, it reminds you that you really never know exactly what is behind a stiff upper lip.

On the upside she finally reveals her lifelong secret to Aziz.

Talk about Aziz and his place in the story.

- So Aziz came to me when I interviewed one of the real finalists of "The Great British Bake Off" about her experience on the show.

She was sort of middle-aged to older lady, and she made friends with a younger contestant.

And she said that it was one of the great joys of being on the show was that she made friends with people that she never would've met in her ordinary, normal life.

And that was such a joy.

And they still go for dinner all the time.

And that made me think Jenny needs to meet a friend that is from a different world to the world that she's in.

She spends so much time with Bernard and Ann and Fred, but actually what about her meeting a younger guy who you know is so lovely like Aziz.

So I kind of got that inspiration from my research, and I've so enjoyed writing that relationship.

- That's so good.

I was really wondering when it comes to sort of like you mentioned the previous drafts before, was there anything besides the flashbacks that really changed between when you first started writing it and as the research developed to what ultimately came together?

- Her motivations, I worked on that to make them more clear.

The flashbacks, as you said.

And oh, another big thing was that in the original draft, Bernard doesn't really, I dunno if this is a spoiler, but he doesn't really hurt himself too badly at all.

And my publisher wanted to make a little bit more drama around Bernard and are we gonna lose him?

They were actually quite keen to actually lose him, which I couldn't allow to happen.

- I would've been devastated.

- You were talking about.

- That would've upset me too deeply.

I was really worried that was gonna happen too.

- Thank you.

I was like no.

- Me too, for sure.

- Yeah, I was like, "This can't happen.

Like that's just not the book.

I can't allow that to happen."

But it was really funny because actually the email ended up being okay, you can not kill Bernard, but if you could grievously injure him, that would be good.

And I was like, "Oh."

- That's fine.

- Good compromise, yeah.

- So we've been talking a lot about is it okay first of all Bernard or Bernard?

- Okay, well everyone says it differently but I say Bernard and I think it's maybe a UK, U.S. thing.

- So I'm gonna go with your version 'cause it sounds a lot fancier.

So Bernard, we love Bernard.

What went into making him the choice that he was a steadfast and supportive partner rather than an antagonistic force?

- So the reason I sort of made Bernard such a wonderful partner to Jenny is because the inspiration, as I mentioned was my grandparents and their 63 year long marriage.

And I was so interested in exploring this kind of idea of a lifelong love and the complexities and the vulnerabilities that come with having spent a lifetime with someone.

So I knew from the beginning that I wanted to write this real great love story and this love that had endured.

So it was a starting point.

So I mean I never actually considered that Bernard would be an antagonistic force, but also if I had made Bernard an antagonistic force, I don't think he would've rooted for them as a couple.

And the secret wouldn't have had such impact because you'd think, well, we don't care about what Bernard thinks whereas because - We do.

We care about Bernard.

- We care about Bernard.

- Amazing, we love him.

If your grandfather is like Bernard at all, we love your grandfather.

- What a cast.

(ladies laughing) - Or your husband and friend.

- He's quiet lot like Bernard.

- who might be sitting here.

- So I was really touched by your acknowledgement, how you really attribute or acknowledge all of the unwed mothers who were forced to put their babies up for adoption between, I think it was 1946 and the '70s.

When did you decide that you wanted to make that acknowledgement?

When did you decide that that was something you wanted to expose and put a like a light on?

- Yes, so I started with this idea of this older couple and this lifelong love and this brilliant lady who had lived a very quiet and ordinary life and she wanted to fulfill this quiet ambition.

But I knew she had a secret and I wasn't sure what it was.

And it wasn't till I got till about 10,000 words that I thought this is her secret.

And the reason I had the idea for this specific secret was because a very good friend of mine's father was born in a mother and baby home.

And he had recently found this out.

And when he found his biological mother, she had died five years previously.

- Oh.

- I know.

- But she had always kept a picture of him on her mantlepiece he found out and she had never had any other children.

- Oh wow.

- Siverish.

- Yeah, and this story really, really moved me.

And I knew immediately that was Jenny's secret.

So then I started researching these real mother and baby homes in the UK, and I was absolutely heartbroken by what I discovered and how common it was.

I think it's 185,000 adoptions of babies happened from unmarried mothers between those times.

- Wow.

- That's terrible.

- Yes, and there's documentaries on it and I watched these documentaries and the women were around Jenny Quinn's age and they had lived with this heartbreak all of their lives.

Some of them had told partners, some of them hadn't.

Some of them had gone on to have children,.

Some of them hadn't.

And they've never kind of had an apology.

They kind of wanted an apology from the government, but they've never had that.

I was just so moved by this.

- Yes.

- And I just wanted to shine a light on it really through Jennifer Quinn.

- Well, I'm glad that you got into all that research before you had your little one because doing that, like what are you, six months postpartum?

That would be way too intense 'cause it was so emotional.

- Yeah.

- Agreed, agreed.

- I actually went back and tweaked some of the details based on how I had felt because I wanted it to be completely realistic.

So yeah, there was some things that I added post having had my little girl.

- Wow.

- I agree.

When I read it I was like, "She must have a child."

Because of how you wrote it.

I definitely felt that you had that experience.

- Yeah.

- That's amazing.

I'm not a parent but I love my cat.

(ladies laughing) And I was like, but I definitely just felt so sad 'cause I had heard about like the Magdalene Laundry women in Ireland.

So I knew something similar had happened, but I didn't know it was such a widespread thing in the UK as well.

Without getting into spoilers, I think the ending is so perfectly open-ended but I instantly wanted more.

And I was just curious why was that the place you chose to end the book?

- So originally I ended the book a little bit earlier.

So it was at the book signing that I ended the book and then my publisher was like, "Oh we need more.

This isn't enough."

And I was like, "I don't have any more, that's the end."

- I'm done.

- And they were like, "Well you kind of need to."

So then I added the sort of very final chapter.

But I love an open ending.

I think it gives people a bit of room themselves to imagine what might happen next.

But more than that, I know that from research and the documentaries I've watched that the relationship between a biological mother and a child that's been adopted can be very complicated.

And I almost didn't want to sugarcoat what might happen next because it can go all sorts of ways.

And I didn't really want to get into that because it could detract from the sort of story I told.

So I left that to people's imagination.

I didn't wanna do it a disservice.

I didn't wanna make it too saccharine too sweet because that's often not how it is.

So that's kind of why I ended it.

And also that was, it felt like the end to me.

I was like, "Jenny has got to where she needs to get in this story."

- Perfect.

- It felt like the end.

- Yeah.

- It felt like the end.

- I don't know what they taught you in that writing class that you took during Covid, but it sure did work.

I was telling my friends here, I love how great writers describe people and Jenny putting on her lipstick to answer the phone could be my mother.

Thank you for bringing back my grandmother in that moment.

Wonderful capturing that.

How does it feel to just provide so much love and good feeling for someone?

Just a simple turn of phrase.

- I'm so thrilled that you picked up on that.

It's something that my mum and my granny do.

Not necessarily always for the phone, but they always, always have their lipstick with them.

It's like their armor.

- Always.

- Yeah.

- The concept of motherhood seems to be sort of conflicting for Jenny in terms of her own identity.

And I find that internal struggle so interesting because whether you have children or not, society tends to assign so much weight on motherhood as a part of a woman's identity.

Talk to us about your feelings on that and how you tease some of that struggle out with Jenny and her character and her situation.

- Yeah, so this is a really big subject and I think at the time of writing this novel, I was 30.

And 30 seems to me like an age where there's this sort of weird precious starts of like, are you gonna have a family?

And lots of my friends at that point, like they had children, some of 'em had a couple of children, some of them were pregnant, some of them don't want children or hadn't had any yet.

I hadn't had a child at that point.

So I did feel like there was an element of me that could relate to Jenny at this point and this pressure because I didn't massively feel that there was a kind of pressure and people were wondering.

But I also feel very firmly that there is so much more to life and motherhood.

Whilst it's an incredible strand, there are so many other parts to a person's life.

But really what I wanted to focus on with Jenny was her right to choose.

And it was that that she lost had she not wanted to be a mother.

That kind of that it's no big deal.

But it was the fact that she had been a mother and she had had that opportunity to bring up her child taken away from her by society and the sort of views at the time.

So it was her right to choose that I really wanted to kind of explore rather than I don't want anyone to take away from it.

Like you need to be a mother to feel fulfilled 'cause I don't believe that.

- Yeah, agreed, agreed.

So we've established that Bernard is a good man.

We've talked a little bit about the secrets, the theme of secrets between couples is a huge theme in this novel.

As someone who's been in a marriage for almost 20 years, secrets is a really interesting thing.

Can we talk about why this was so central to your book?

And we've talked about it a little bit, but as you think about this secret, you said in the beginning you kind of knew there was gonna be a secret, but there are more than one secret, right?

And it's strong.

Can you talk about that and why you're pushing the reader to contemplate their lives?

- So I find I'm by the way, really bad at keeping secrets.

(all laughs) I'm so bad at it.

Jenny on the other hand, is really good at keeping secrets.

Although she has only kept two, the small one and then the big one.

But I think what I hoped people would take from the secret element of it is that I very firmly believe that people aren't black and white.

And sometimes people go, oh well she kept a secret.

And some of the reviews people are like, well, she kept a secret from Bernard, like that's really bad.

He's a really nice person, but it's not black and white.

Yeah, it's people are gray actually most of the time.

And she kept that secret out of a deep shame.

It wasn't a reflection of Bernard and how great he is.

It was a reflection of kind of society and how she was made to feel and the shame that she carried for all those years.

And that she felt actually she couldn't.

And I think for Jenny keeping the secret became bigger than the secret itself.

So I kind of wanted people to take from it that people are gray, they're not black and white, and I don't know, I hope that they have a bit of empathy for Jenny and the reasons why she did keep a secret.

- Absolutely.

And I feel like I kept going back and forth about wondering like if he would have still approached her if she was a single mother.

And it's like there's no right answer because it is a big commitment at any age to take on that responsibility.

- For sure.

- So it's like either way it would be a complicated thing.

But for my real question, I really wanted to ask, what was it like making the jump from working in television to becoming a published author?

Did anything surprise you about just how, 'cause both things are group activities in certain ways, but one, you're definitely working with more people all the way through where at the end you're just all of a sudden so many collaborators.

So what was that like for you?

- It's been an incredible journey because I genuinely never expected Mrs. Quinn to be published.

So it was something, as I said I did in lockdown.

I fully intended to go back to TV and I have done for a bit, I think it's been about a year since I've worked in TV, but I still am holding onto that because I absolutely loved it.

But being able to write full time is such a privilege.

And the reason it happened was because I entered the first 10,000 words of Mrs. Quinn into a competition.

- Oh wow.

- Which is quite fitting really.

- Yeah, definitely.

- Yes.

- And it got picked up and that's how I got an agent and then that's how I got published.

So it was really unexpected.

It was a career move I never thought I'd make, I didn't think that you could just be an author.

I kind of thought you'd have to have a certain qualification, be a certain person.

And it is like saying you wanna be a pop star or an actress, like I didn't think that was a thing.

But actually if you pick up a pen and write something or write on your laptop, you are a writer and you've got a good chance at being picked up if you've got a story that you want to tell.

So I kind of learned that it's something that can be done because I really wasn't sure that it could.

- So many books are about characters in their youth.

It was really refreshing for me to read a story from the perspective of a woman who has some life under her belt.

What made you want to write Jenny as a 77-year-old woman?

- Whenever I tried to write anything, someone a similar age to me it just was jarring and I just didn't feel like I wanted to write it.

And then I read one of my favorite books, which is "The Unlikely Pilgrimage of Harold Fry", and I don't know if you've read that, but it's by Rachel Joyce.

And it's about an older man that goes to post a letter one day, but he keeps walking and there's this huge amazing story behind it, which I won't go into now, but it gave me the confidence to think, actually maybe I'll write as someone much older than myself.

And immediately the words came and I just enjoyed it so, so much more.

I think I realized that I actually always had wanted to write as someone older, I don't know if it's the hours and hours that I've spent with my grandparents, but that really helped inform being an older person and how it might feel.

But above all I realized that everyone kind of experiences the same emotions whether you are 12 or 92.

I think dreams and ambitions and love and loss are things that we feel at every age.

And actually there's very much a lot of Jenny Quinn in me I think, and vice versa.

So I think actually I realized that you can be any age and feel the same things.

But yes, I was very much drawn to writing as an older person because I think that there's so much more to draw on.

- Okay, Olivia confession time.

Now at my house when we're cooking, we say going in, coming out.

So that's one effect your book had on our household.

The other thing is these desserts, I promise you I Googled every single one of those.

And while you say it wasn't a cutthroat competition, the desserts are very unforgiving.

Talk about woman versus dessert.

- Well, obviously I have a sweet tooth and so there was a huge amount of that in the novel.

And I have a father who is a very, very good kind of cook and he's great with dessert.

That's his thing.

So it was very much inspired by a lot of what he makes, the lemon meringue pie, the chocolate log.

He's a great home baker as well as granny.

So yeah, that was always going to be a big part of the novel.

And I always say he was the bestower of the sweet tooth.

- It was truly man versus dessert.

(all laughs) - Yeah.

- Yeah.

- Olivia, it's been so lovely to talk to you about "Mrs. Quinn's Rise To Fame."

So thank you for that.

We know our audience wants to learn just a bit more about you as well if you are up for it.

So we've talked about some of your previous lines of work, but did you always know that you were a writer?

- I always loved writing and as a child I was always writing stories.

But no, I never thought I would kind of become a writer.

And actually I didn't write for years before I started "Mrs. Quinn" because I think I was kind of working in TV and I was a story producer.

So there was that story element of my brain.

It was really being used.

So I really enjoyed that and that was kind of consuming me and I didn't have the time to write or the space to have an idea really.

So obviously it wasn't until lockdown that then I was like, oh, I've got the space here in my brain and I can really focus on pure writing rather than story producing.

- What's your ideal writing setup?

Are you a morning person, a night owl?

Do you like to work in an office?

Which it sounds like you did a lot of this at home, but do you ever go to the coffee shop?

How do you mix it up?

- I do all sorts.

I have to say I can't write in the evening.

Someone once said, and I don't know who it is and I need to find out, "But wake up earlier than your inner critic."

Because actually when I write in the morning, I just don't criticize myself when I'm just like, "There we go, that's done."

If I write in the afternoon, I'm like, "Well, this is terrible.

Why have I started that?

This is an awful idea and why am I even writing a book?"

So definitely think there's something in waking up earlier than your inner critic.

I also read another thing by also Rebecca Watson and she said, "Don't ritualize your writing."

And by which I think she meant if you are waiting for the perfect day and the perfect idea and the cup of tea and the office in the garden to write, you'll just never write.

And that really kind of helped me when I was in the writing process 'cause obviously there'd be days where I didn't write much and I was beating myself up about it.

And then I just thought, "I just need to stop waiting for the perfect scenario and just get on with it."

So sometimes it would be in coffee shops, sometimes it would be at home, sometimes it would be on a train or on holiday.

And actually on my honeymoon I did some writing as well.

- Awesome.

Start of a great day.

I love it.

- Yeah, it was actually really nice of him to let me just go and do that.

So I think what I learned was actually the best thing to do is just crack on and don't ritualize it too much, but always morning.

- I gotta take that advice, just crack on.

- Crack on.

- 'Cause that's how I feel sometimes when I'm like looking at the blank page like what are we gonna do?

- Crack on.

- So exactly.

- When it comes to reading, do you prefer a book e-reader or audiobook or a combination of all of the above?

- I love actual old fashioned books because they're so beautiful and I don't think anything quite compares to words on a page.

The e-reader is amazing, especially having had a baby because so much of my reading now is in the dark 'cause I can't put the life on 'cause it wakes everyone up.

So actually the e-reader that is really useful.

I haven't actually got massively into audio books, but I really want to.

- A two part question for you here, Olivia.

In your opinion, has there ever been a movie that was better than the book?

And if "Mrs. Quinn's Rise To Fame" became a movie or a series, who would play Jenny?

- Ooh, this is such a tricky question.

Do you know what?

I'm not saying that this film is better than the book to be honest, but I thought they did a brilliant job with it.

The latest adaptation of "Little Women" I absolutely love with Timate and Saoirse Ronan, I absolutely love that.

I wouldn't ever say it's better than the book, but it's certainly a very good take on the book.

Another one that sprung to mind is "Slumdog Millionaire."

- Oh, I love that movie.

- I love that movie.

- I love that one.

- Yeah, that's such a good movie.

But I believe that that's based on a book called "The Quiz" or "Quiz", which I've not actually read, so maybe it's better.

But the movie is so good that I'm like, "How can the book be better than the film?

The film is insane."

In terms of who would play Jenny in a TV adaptation or a film, I'm not sure, but the person that springs to mind is Emma Thompson.

- I love her, "My Wife."

I love her so much.

- Yes, good choice.

- All right, Olivia, favorite book from your childhood growing up?

- I'm gonna have to go with one that probably everyone says, but truly it was "Harry Potter."

- Classic.

- Classic.

- I just really enjoyed it, yeah.

- Yeah.

- My favorite.

- Favorite books you've read in the last year?

- Yes, so anything by Joanna Glenn, I mentioned her earlier, but she's got two books out and a new one coming out very soon.

But her books are called "The Other Half of Augusta Hope" and "All My Mothers" and basically I love books that make me cry.

If I've not really been moved by a book, it doesn't make it into my favorites.

And I absolutely adored both of those books and they made me sob.

One of them, "All My Mothers" I read on a plane and I actually think people are a bit concerned, but it's incredible.

Another really good one is "We All Want Impossible Things" by I think it's Catherine Newman.

Absolutely love that book.

- What's the best advice you've ever received writing or otherwise?

- For writing, I think it's that great books are made in the edit 'cause I think sometimes we read our favorite books and we think I'll never be able to write anything like that.

And that's because we are seeing the book after it's been through loads of different people and edited and you are seeing a kind of polished end product when really if we saw the first draft, it might feel a bit more achievable.

So I think the best advice was being told that because actually it made me be less self-critical and just get those words down because truly it is just like getting the words down and then you can shape it and make it really good rather than worrying about every sentence being perfect.

- That's great advice.

- Absolutely.

- Yeah, and given that insight, what advice would you give to aspiring writers?

- Three things I would say do courses, writing courses are great.

The one I did was absolutely pivotal to writing "Mrs.

Quinn."

There's always stuff that can be learned.

Enter competitions like Jenny, because that's how I got an agent.

And I just think you've got nothing to lose.

And the third thing is to enjoy the journey of writing because you write, because you enjoy it.

And truly, even though "Mrs. Quinn" got picked up and I've got a publishing deal, which is absolutely an incredible thing to happen, the happiest I've been on this journey was on the good writing days.

That even was better than the feeling of seeing the cover for the first time.

Like truly it was the good writing day.

So a bit like life.

Enjoy the journey and don't just focus on the destination.

- Wonderful advice.

Finally, anything that you'd like to say to your readers?

- Thank you.

I feel so lucky that anyone picks up "Mrs. Quinn" and reads it and that's what they spend their time on.

So I'm really sort of still completely blown away that people are buying and borrowing "Mrs.

Quinn."

And the second thing is, follow your quiet ambitions.

Whatever age and whoever you are.

I think that dreams and ambitions are really aimed at young people.

People are like, what do you wanna be?

What do you wanna do with your life?

But actually, as Bernard says, sometimes people achieve their dreams because of their age and not in spite of it.

And so I think I would love readers to take from the novel that they can do it, whatever that quiet ambition is.

- I love that.

- I love that, yeah.

- All right, Olivia Ford, we are grateful for your book and for your time.

Thanks so much for joining us on the PBS Books Readers Club.

- Thank you so much for having me.

- Such a great conversation.

I love hearing the inspiration behind the books and also just like their process.

It makes me love every book that we read so much more when we get to talk to the author.

- Absolutely.

And I also love when authors have different lives that they're pulling in from, and just the idea of working in entertainment television and being able to put all of that nuance and background into how these things get done.

I just think that's so fun and interesting.

- Agreed, I also really like how the whole thought that she's trying to bring attention to an injustice that we've really overlooked, right?

The fact that unwed women have been forced to give up their babies without really anyone talking about the grief.

I love that this book quietly brings attention to that.

It's amazing.

- Amazing story all way around.

And I'm sure "Mrs. Quinn's Rise To Fame" is now at the top of your reading list.

You can pick up a copy at your local library or bookstore, download the ebook when you support your local PBS station.

- We're going to reveal our next PBS Books Readers Club pick in just a moment.

But first, remember that as a member of your local station, you'll also get access to PBS Passport, where you can stream more amazing PBS shows.

If you loved reading "Mrs. Quinn's Rise To Fame", you will definitely enjoy streaming "The Great American Recipe", a heartfelt cooking competition that will keep you cozied up for hours.

I had a chance to sit down with a show host Alejandro Ramos, and I'm excited to share our conversation.

But first, let's take a quick peek at what's happening this season on "The Great American Recipe."

This season of the Great American recipe is, I think the best one yet.

- That smells good.

- If you haven't had my lamb chop, we're not friends yet.

(upbeat music) - Season three is exciting because it's all fresh faces and everyone's just getting better and better.

- This is a really delicious plate of food.

- And of course, two brand new judges, Francis and Tim, who are bringing all of their knowledge and their warmth to our beautiful little family.

- One of the things that brings me so much joy about this show is the fact that I'm able to mentor.

I grew up eating southern food.

We want something that's gonna be beautiful.

Good luck.

- Thank you, sir.

- We're not there to cast judgment from on high and tell you, oh, your food was great and yours was bad.

We really approach it as how do we make something wonderful together?

Can you have a taste of the corn?

- Sure.

- (speaks in foreign language) - (speaks in foreign language) - Home cooks are now understanding flavor profiles.

Their food is delicious, but it also tells a story.

- We have home cooks from the northeast, from the southwest, we have a home cook from Alaska.

- Hello, chef.

- What are you making?

- Alaska sausage.

It's made with some reindeer meat.

Have little tasty.

- I tried reindeer for the first time.

- I think this was the first time for all of us.

- That is delicious.

- America is a country that's built on so many different nationalities.

- So what I've made for you today is oxtail in palm nuts stew.

- It just like warms your heart.

And this is my first time trying palm nut.

- Awesome.

- Thank you for introducing me.

- Food really builds bridges between people and culture.

- This walk looks well loved.

- Over 50 years.

My mom gave it to me.

- 50 years.

- You can take all my jewelry away, but do not take my walk.

(all laughs) - We are a competition show, but we really are celebrating each other along the way.

Your food is all part of that American story.

- The home cooks are on a journey together.

You really fall in love with them.

- Full seasons of "The Great American Recipe" and so many amazing shows are available to stream on Passport.

Just $5 a month makes you a member of your local PBS station.

You'll get the PBS book mug plus access to the amazing shows and Passport, including the extended edition of this interview with Olivia Ford.

- And the official PBS Books mug.

Don't forget that this is new.

So we wanna make sure you get this and get your ebook download of "Mrs. Quinn's Rise To Fame" or any of our featured reads.

Just click the link in the description or visit pbsbooks.org/donate and you'll be taken right to your local PBS station's giving page.

After you complete your donation, you'll get an email from your station with a special code to download your ebook.

- Now, every station's donation page is a little different, so you may need to search a little bit to find the PBS Books gifts, but stick with us 'cause your support makes this reader's club possible.

- If you're not in a position to donate, you can still help by sharing this video and leaving us a comment like or love.

- Now Lauren, you had a chance to sit down with Alejandra Ramos, host of "The Great American Recipe."

So how was it?

- It was so great.

I loved talking with her.

I wanted to get a little bit of the inside scoop on how the show is made, so it was really fun to chat with her.

- Well, we're excited too.

Let's take a look.

- I'm Lauren Smith with the PBS Books Readers Club.

Today we are so excited to chat with the host of "The Great American Recipe", Alejandra Ramos.

Alejandra, thanks so much for joining us.

- Hi, I'm so happy to be here.

Thanks for having me.

- And you have a little friend there too.

- I do, I have my little friend Jojo who's gonna be joining us.

- Hey Jojo.

So tell us what's cooking this season on "The Great American Recipe"?

- Oh my gosh.

We have so many new things happening this season.

Jojo, I want you to take a seat buddy.

So we are in a new barn.

So we moved the show from Virginia to Tennessee.

So we're in Nashville this season, which is really exciting to take the show on the road after the first two seasons in Virginia.

So we're in Nashville in this gorgeous barn.

It's a little bit smaller, which is nice because it's a little bit cozier and more intimate and we get to really be closer to the cooks as they're doing their magic.

And then of course we have our two new amazing judges, Tim Hollingsworth, who is a chef from California, he's incredible.

He is from LA.

and we also have Francis Lam, who is the host of "The Splendid Table" on NPR.

And he's a book editor, and they just both bring such great amazing perspective and warmth and knowledge to our family.

And then we've got, of course, Tiffany Derry from Texas is back with us.

So it's like a nice view.

We just kind of mix it up.

We have some fresh faces, fresh contestants, a whole new cast of contestants.

We have eight of them this season from all over the country.

So it's just really fun.

I think it's a really nice way to kind of mix it up a little bit.

And I think viewers are gonna be really excited.

- Well, it sounds fabulous.

I can't wait to watch.

So our Book Club pick this month is "Mrs. Quinn's Rise To Fame" and it follows the story of this 77-year-old woman Jenny, who finds herself a contestant on her favorite cooking show.

And Jenny, she's very sweet.

She's a little bit older.

She doesn't fully understand like what all the young kids are doing all the time, but we fall in love with her.

I wondered if that reminds you of any of the contestants on the show this year.

- I love that.

That's so great.

So we actually have a slightly older contestant this year.

I think she's amazing.

Her name is May, but she's wonderful because she was kind of like the house mama, basically.

Like everyone's like Mama May or Auntie May.

She was so wonderful.

Her background is Chinese, and she made so many incredible dishes that she introduced us to.

And she always had such incredible knowledge of the food and the cooking technique.

So every time she came to present, we would all learn so much.

Even Francis, who is Chinese also, he would learn so much.

So it was a really incredible experience to have her with us.

Just all those years of knowledge.

That sounds amazing.

I cant wait to watch her journey.

So for some of our readers that may not have seen the show before, tell us how it works.

How does the competition all flow from episode to episode?

flo How does that work?

And so we start off with start eight contestants this season last, and then we keep them throughout the course of the competition up until the last week.

Basically we sort of score their dishes and we keep track of the rankings throughout the competition.

- And nobody's getting cut week to week.

- Nobody gets cut from week to week.

You just fall in love with these people.

They're not leaving us.

- Exactly.

And that's what was really important to us because I think especially with a lot of these shows, sometimes some folks they get cut too early or they leave early and you don't get to know them, you don't get to know their recipes and their stories.

And for us that's what's really most important, right?

It really is about celebrating the regions, the native backgrounds, the history and traditions, family stories that each of our cooks bring to the barn, to our kitchen.

And it's important to have them there so they can really take that time to share with us.

- Yeah.

- So it's nice for them to be able to really have the proper time to present their stories the way that they feel proud of.

- Yeah, and you mentioned those important family or nostalgic recipes and that's such an important theme in the book that we're all reading together this month.

And I wondered about you if you have any favorite important family recipes that sort of spark those memories and those feelings and bring back all those great emotions.

Anything come to mind for you?

- Of course, yeah.

I mean, so my family's Puerto Rican.

I was born in New York, grew up in New York, New Jersey, but eating a lot of Puerto Rican food and also visiting my family on the island a lot very regularly.

And so those are probably the dishes that are kind of the heart of my culinary story and my food story, even if they're not necessarily things that I would eat all the time or cook regularly, they're still sort of the dishes that when you pull them out, they bring all of those memories and all of those stories with them.

They keep kind of traditions alive and they keep family members alive.

And so it's like having my grandmother back in the kitchen with me or having my cousins with me, or if I'm traveling being away, it's still being, it's a way of having a taste of home.

- Yeah.

- But some specific dishes would probably be things like bernil which is a roast pork shoulder that we serve, Puerto Rican serve for Christmas and Thanksgiving.

And it's very much like a celebratory dish.

Like it's our big feast dish.

We actually have a challenge on the show that's always like a holiday or a special celebration dish.

And so if I were going to be on the show and cooking a dish, that would probably be what I would make for that specific challenge 'cause it's just- - Oh, that's awesome.

I love that.

- Yeah.

- That's really cool.

- I wanted to ask too, in our book, Mrs. Quinn, Jenny, she makes friends with this much younger contestant and their friendship is really heartwarming and sweet.

I was curious about the relationships and the friendships that form between the contestants.

How does that all typically play out?

- That is actually my favorite part of the show.

Just seeing the friendships, the relationships that form between all of our cooks.

And I think that it really speaks to how special our show is because it really is just this warm, uplifting, kind of joyful celebration of cooking and everybody's sharing together.

And if you've watched the show or if you do watch the show, a lot of times they're stories that are very emotional, right?

'Cause sometimes it's stories from someone that passed on or something from just an emotional moment in one of the cooks' lives.

And so it's these very vulnerable times and so they're all sharing together.

And I would always love, like when someone came up and shared something that was maybe a little bit harder to share, everybody would just sort of like run and hug them and support them.

Or even just like celebrating joys, right?

Like we had a cook who kept missing the mark a few times and was feeling a little bit defeated and finally got that win.

And just seeing everybody kind of come in and just give them the hugs and the support, that's always one of my favorite parts of the show.

But actually speaking of, 'cause we were talking a little bit earlier about May and she actually bonded really well with Ajo, which is another cook and who's much younger.

And so it is kind of that combination of sort of the older cook and then the younger one and they became really good friends and they're both very short, so both.

And so they'd always run and like hold hands.

They were both like about the same height and it was just so sweet to see and they call each other bestie like, "Hey bestie, you've got this bestie."

And would give each other advice and tips.

But I saw a lot of that.

Like you saw people pairing off and you saw people also just kind of knowing when someone needed a little bit of extra support and coming in to help.

- Yeah, I love that.

I love the idea of food bringing different types of people together, and the idea that these are relationships that you would never form and any other circumstance and the way that the show brings those people together is really charming and I can't wait to see how that plays out.

I wanna take you back to your first day on set with "The Great American Recipe."

Tell us what that experience was like to sort of walk onto the set, get the lay of the land.

How are you feeling?

Take us back to that moment.

- Yeah, absolutely.

So I love that question.

So the first moment, or like my first line, it was literally just me alone in the barn.

And my first line at that point was literally just welcome to "The Great American Recipe."

I'm your host Alejandra Ramos.

And it was such a great moment of just kind of getting to introduce myself and sort of represent myself 'cause I'm usually being introduced like on today's show or on other programs and things that I do, I'm always being introduced.

So that moment of getting to speak for myself and introduce myself, it felt very moving.

- Yeah, I love that.

That's a really moving story.

So last question, what would you say is different and special about "The Great American Recipe" that's unique from other cooking competition shows?

- I think what sets "The Great American Recipe" apart from other cooking competitions is the fact that for us, the story is just as if not more important than everything else.

So we understand that food comes within context, right?

It's not just ingredients that end up in a dish.

It really does have history.

And we wanna know about that because like maybe there's a reason why that soup is so delicious to you and it's because you know it was the first soup that your husband made on your first date.

And so every time you eat it, it brings you back to that.

And for us it may just be a delicious soup, but once we know that that's the soup that the love of your life first made you and that you fell in love with them over, that's gonna add so much more richness to the story.

And we recognize that.

We recognize that that's what makes food special.

It isn't really just about the taste.

And we allow the space for that so that we can really get the full complete picture of what our cooks are sharing with us and why those recipes and those stories are so important to them.

Well, we can't wait to watch "The Great American Recipe" on PBS.

It's gonna be a fabulous season, and I'm sure there's so much for us to enjoy.

We can't wait to cozy up with that one.

And I wanna give you the chance to do your own outro, okay?

Because I know the introduction was so important for you on "Great American Recipe", so we'll let you do your own outro here.

- Thank you all for watching.

I'm Alejandra Ramos.

This has been PBS Books and I'm so excited for you all to tune in to season three of "The Great American Recipe" on PBS.

- Fabulous to have you.

Thank you so much for joining the PBS Books Readers Club.

Great to have you.

- Thank you.

It's a super fun.

- What a great conversation.

Thanks so much for that, Lauren.

You can catch "The Great American Recipe" on PBS with full seasons streaming on PBS Passport.

And now it's time to reveal our PBS Books Readers Club selection for next month.

Princess, will you do the honors, please?

- [Princess] I shall.

Our next pick is "James" by Percival Everett.

This book is an instant New York Times bestseller and it's the top of everyone's list.

- [Lauren] This book has become an immediate classic re-imagining Mark Twain's "The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn" from the perspective of Jim who in his attempt to escape slavery, accompanies and protects Huck on their journey down the Mississippi.

It's brimming with humor and adventure while bringing biting observations that will forever alter our perception of American literature.

- [Fred] Okay, book clubbers, it's time to get reading.

Be sure to submit your questions for Percival Everett by joining the PBS Books Readers Club Facebook group, and they could be asked and answered on our next episode.

- [Montilla] We'll also have more book recommendations in the PBS Books eNewsletter.

Visit pbsbooks.org/subscribe.

- [Fred] We're so glad to have you as part of the PBS Books Readers Club.

If you love this conversation, please consider making a donation to your local PBS station so we can keep our book club.

Go and click the link in the description or visit pbsbooks.org/donate.

- Remember, you can get your very own PBS Books mug.

It's right here.

- Awesome.

- Just like the ones we have, along with the removable PBS Book stickers to show off your love for books and for PBS.

And you can also get an ebook download of one of our PBS features.

We have the "Mrs. Quinn's Rise To Fame" ebook available.

So if you make your donation now, you can go download it as soon as you get the email with your special code.

- And everyone can help by sharing this video with all your friends, giving us a like or a love, and subscribing to the PBS book's e-newsletter at PBSbooks.org/subscribe.

- Thanks for reading along with the PBS Books Readers Club.

(upbeat music)